[pasmembers] Re: LIbrary star party
- From: Tim Jones <timj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 22:46:19 -0700
Okay, after changing this to a single font size so that I could get through it
and reading William's added follow up, I seem to be picking up on the issues.
1 - Gas is expensive and some of the members are a bit tight on being able to
drive all over the valley without the added financial resources.
2 - We do a lot of events each month
3 - Club members are scattered all over the valley making issue #1 more
applicable to some more than others
4 - Previous events didn't necessarily utilize our support in the best of
frameworks
Taking those 4 principle points from the messages from Terri, William, and Don,
I can only say that regardless of reimbursement discussion, maybe a starting
point would be to examine our accepted load for a given quarter and either
reduce the commitments or get a better feel for the geographical dispersion of
the membership and try to set up events by area so that Don's not guilted into
driving form Chandler to BMCC or I'm not responsible for an event at South
Mountain Park (just examples, please don't read any more into it than that …).
In those cases, we see what the outreach interest level is for the various
events and assign events in a more sensible, regionalized manner.
What ever happened to the "hobby" aspect of what we do? When I joined the
club, it was more than solvent and we did a lot of public outreach that usually
didn't involve more than refreshments; we didn't try to charge every entity
that requested our presence to make it worth our while. I know that I
personally did not invest in my equipment to make money from it. Nor did I
expect to be reimbursed for my time when I "volunteer" for the club's events.
As for not getting the support that we should when we do an event, one
situation that Terri mentions was when the ASC didn't back us when we did the
events and didn't create signs when she requested them to inform attendees of
our presence. The club's reaction was to stop doing the events. However,
might it not have been a better reaction to create our own signs to direct
attendees to our presence in Heritage Square? Might that have been a more
effective solution to bring attention to our presence rather than simply not
going any more?
I've acted as a board member for 11 different large clubs since 1977. In each
of those clubs, we did outreach - whether for computers, gardening, model
railroads, racing, or astronomy - at no cost to the event promoters (trust me,
25 Porsche race cars cost far more that the telescopes that we use and my model
railroad N-Trak section had over $7K invested). Additionally, the clubs paid
for things like banners, signs, and meeting refreshments out of the members'
dues. I guess I'm just not used to the idea of a volunteer getting paid for
doing something that they like to do.
In summary, if the path that the club must take involves payment, I'll accept
it and leave it at that, but I'll continue to do my part as a volunteer.
Tim
On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Terri <cosmicstarstuff@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Tim
>
> very interesting thoughts.
> Thank you for sharing.
> Hmmmm.
>
> The reason we decided to make it a fee for PAS to do
> schools was for gas reimbursement. We went to several schools this last year
> in which I told them we request $20 to $25 per car for gas reimbursement to
> do the event. We got $5 at one event to split between 5 scopes. Wow, that
> didn't cover
> the cost of the gas to get there and back, and as you know,
> people like Mike are unemployed but a great asset and
> addition to the star parties. I'd hate to not have Mike attend
> because he can't make it there, no gas in the car.
> We also have done schools where we asked that they collect
> donations to PAS from their attending students and parents,
> and again, got nothing for the work we were doing.
> So, we decided to make it a requirement of $25/attending scope,
> because some of us bring more than 1 scope which keeps the
> lines down at the event, and offers more views. I don't' think
> $25 per scope - with allowing them to cap the number of
> attending scopes for the event - is going to make a school
> go broke. They have a PTA and PTO for that kind of expense.
> So far, schools have been fine giving us gas reimbursement.
> Plus, all schools feed us.
>
> Now, the Library. The Library may be non profit. But,
> if they have any income, they may want to invest in this
> kind of educational opportunity. If we want to agree
> that the $25 we ask for from the Library goes directly
> to PAS, rather than to the participants, that's fine. We just
> have to agree that that is the situation with Libraries.
> I would love to trade them, star party once every 2 months,
> or every month, in trade for use of their meeting room, some
> other time during the month. We could do mini astronomy
> presentations in their meeting room, and draw in the teens that
> way, on other days of the month, than just the star party night.
> But I do feel there should be a trade, if not a fee.
>
> When we did the events at North Mountain Park, we
> used their grounds for a star party, and also borrowed
> their meeting room, on several occasions, to do
> some extra presentations, generalized, to draw in more
> public. Some times those meetings were not associated
> with the star party, and other times, they were together,
> same night. But we traded, and I felt that was a good trade.
>
> Maybe, we could borrow the meeting room, do a presentation
> an hour before the star party, Mike or someone could do it,
> and then the star party, all in one night. And maybe ask
> that we have use of their meeting room another night, for
> the public to attend, or something. What are your thoughts on
> that idea, instead of charging for the star party?
>
> One thing I don't' want is for it to be like they treated us
> at the Az Science Center. We asked, many times, can you
> make an announcement that we are set up outside in Heritage
> Square so that the people leaving will think to swing by and
> look through our scopes. We asked that they make sign
> that says we are out there. They wouldn't do it and
> the people didn't come to our scopes, so we felt we weren't
> appreciated and quite doing that venue. I had fun doing
> First Friday's at ASC, until we were no longer appreciated.
>
> Terri
>
> Good friends are like stars. You don't always
> see them, but you always know they are there.
> Terri Phoenix Astronomical Society Event Coordinator
> Visit the P.A.S. Blog & My Facebook Page
> Visit my Music Page: Private Music Instructor
>
> From: Bob Christ <bchrist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:50 AM
> Subject: [pasmembers] Re: LIbrary star party
>
> I second the "emotion." Over the last couple of years the club has certainly
> grown more "commercial" in scope.
>
> Bob
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:41 AM, Tim Jones wrote:
>
>> The library system is Maricopa County, not city-based, so the Scottsdale
>> location has no bearing on this and your comment is absurd. Again, they
>> don't charge the kids or families for the programs, so our charging them
>> feels a bit greedy if more than a simple registration fee.
>>
>> <SOAPBOX MODE ON>
>> <FLAME RETARDANT UNDERWEAR ON>
>> Look, I understand that times are tight for many of us, but using the club
>> as a source of income is simply wrong. As most of you know, I don't take
>> money from events that I'm part of with the club because I feel that way
>> about it. In all the non-profit organizations that I've ever been involved
>> with, PAS is the first of such which charges for outreach events. To say
>> the least, I feel very uncomfortable with a practice under which club
>> members are paid to the point of requiring W9's on file with the club.
>> Additionally, since the club now requires W9's for payout, that makes
>> members who receive payment contractors and the club has now become a
>> business entity rather than a club or organization.
>>
>> On the other hand, if there was a club-level "booking fee" of around $25,
>> that would be different. That could be explained as an administrative fee.
>> I don't have an issue with the club making up for the effort of its members
>> (versus private people) to arrange and manage such an event.
>>
>> If there really needs to be a "business unit" from within the club to run
>> paid star parties, it should be a private venture of like-minded members and
>> it should be treated as a separate entity, and not part of the PAS
>> structure. Also, events hosted and managed by these people should not be
>> considered as "PAS Events". Otherwise, it's not outreach, it's "Tony
>> Laconti using the club's status in the community for drumming up business."
>> <SOAPBOX MODE OFF>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>
>
>
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