[pasmembers] Re: LIbrary star party

  • From: William Finch <psychogilgamesh@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:13:06 -0700

Tim,

I both agree and disagree with you.

The part of me that thinks as most people think a non profit is fully agrees with you. as a normal citizen of the USA, I think Non-Profit as being a organization that really has my and the communities betterment at heart instead of it's pocket book.

The part that disagrees with you however says this...

1) $25 for about 3 hours of work isn't even minimum wage. Thus, really can't be defined as a "business". Just as buying a telescope for $1,000 and getting paid $300 over the year, also isn't a business. I'm sure Mike has also spent more on rocks than he's made, also not a business.

2) The club has expenses such as a CPA and insurance. This means the club needs money coming in to pay for expenses. The club over all has 2 income sources, dues and star parties. If the club is making something from a star party, I'd personally would like to see something come back to me to help me pay for my equipment and time.

3) Tax codes does allow the club to compensate members for their time as an independent contractor. Thus the need for a W-9 if a member makes over $600 in a year. Oh, also, I think Don's the only one that's gotten near or over the $600. This being said, also points to a hobby mindset, instead of a business.

4) Non profits often have employees and executives that get paid. Look at Savers, Goodwill, and Salvation Army, they all have CEO's that get paid well over $100,000 per year.

On 1/11/2013 8:41 AM, Tim Jones wrote:
The library system is Maricopa County, not city-based, so the Scottsdale 
location has no bearing on this and your comment is absurd.  Again, they don't 
charge the kids or families for the programs, so our charging them feels a bit 
greedy if more than a simple registration fee.

<SOAPBOX MODE ON>
<FLAME RETARDANT UNDERWEAR ON>
Look, I understand that times are tight for many of us, but using the club as a 
source of income is simply wrong. As most of you know, I don't take money from 
events that I'm part of with the club because I feel that way about it. In all 
the non-profit organizations that I've ever been involved with, PAS is the 
first of such which charges for outreach events.  To say the least, I feel very 
uncomfortable with a practice under which club members are paid to the point of 
requiring W9's on file with the club. Additionally, since the club now requires 
W9's for payout, that makes members who receive payment contractors and the 
club has now become a business entity rather than a club or organization.

On the other hand, if there was a club-level "booking fee" of around $25, that 
would be different.  That could be explained as an administrative fee.  I don't have an 
issue with the club making up for the effort of its members (versus private people) to 
arrange and manage such an event.

If there really needs to be a "business unit" from within the club to run paid star parties, it 
should be a private venture of like-minded members and it should be treated as a separate entity, and not 
part of the PAS structure.  Also, events hosted and managed by these people should not be considered as 
"PAS Events".  Otherwise, it's not outreach, it's "Tony Laconti using the club's status in the 
community for drumming up business."
<SOAPBOX MODE OFF>

Tim

On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Don Boyd <azphotog@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I say we consider it like a school, most libraries have some kind of group that 
helps support them; If they don't then maybe wave the fee. After all we are 
talking about Scottsdale...not south Phoenix.

Don

On 1/10/2013 5:00 PM, Tim Jones wrote:
I'd love to do outreach here as it's almost walking distance from my office :-).

Ugh - and you think PVCC Union Hills has lighting problems… The Mustang is 
right across 90th street from a major shopping area and just south of 
Scottsdale hospital.

However, they do have a nice parking lot.

Since the library is a non-profit and offers their programs to kids and 
families for free, I vote that we do it gratis.




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