[opendtv] Re: AVSForum getting antsy over 8-VSB reception
- From: "John Willkie" <JohnWillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:10:29 -0800
I wouldn't find that entertaining. Just watching wires?
John Willkie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:59 PM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: AVSForum getting antsy over 8-VSB reception
> Actually I think the future of both entertainment and all other
> connectivity is something like Internet over UWB in turn delivered to
> the home and curb with fiber. Everywhere.
>
> In this scenario the broadcasters can probably only offer local content.
> And there is nowhere near either the supply or demand for local
> content to support the current number of broadcasters. Right now they
> just happen to have must carry and exclusive network contracts going for
> them.
>
> But they can hope to either bargain an analog cutoff for multiple must
> carry or to squat on the spectrum until they are bought off in some
> other fashion.
>
> - Tom
>
>
> Cliff Benham wrote:
>
> > Why would networks bear the cost of O&O OTA broadcast facilities when
> > they can cover their viewers with satellite and cable?
> > They would still have a local studio and do news but they wouldn't have
> > to pay for all the power and upkeep of the stick.
> > If, in 10 years, 99.5% of the Philadelphia viewers can get all the DTV
> > 'network channels' over cable and satellite why would the broadcasters
> > continue to pay for maintenance and power for a 1500 ft tower and
> > transmitters? It doesn't make economic sense if you consider the
> > power costs alone.
> > Tom Barry wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't think OTA is going away. But it seems possible the non-O&O
> >>stations may all fail. They sort of are caught in a squeeze between the
> >>network content owners and the need to be carried on cable. So if OTA
> >>is not feasible and the networks gradually offer affiliates less and
> >>less attractive terms I'm not sure what sort of bargaining position the
> >>NAB members can maintain.
> >>
> >>As Craig says, it is probably just ownership caps that keep them alive.
> >>
> >>Eventually the networks or other associated Hollywood entities will
> >>probably acquire them somehow and we can then change to a new model of
> >>some sort. At that time we will probably come up with some new
> >>broadcast standard, either as another transition or by high-ish
> >>definition mobile video gradually winning a competitive war.
> >>
> >>Meanwhile the independents will bleed and we will all continue to wonder
> >>what is going on, with so many apparently inexplicable decisions by the
> >>power players.
> >>
> >>- Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Cliff Benham wrote
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Why bother? What's really happening is that over the air
broadcasting=20
> >>>is going to be gone in 10 years or so. Why else would the FCC chose a
> >>>system that doesn't work? Look at what is happening. Cable and
satellite
> >>>supply television to 85% of the homes in the US right now. The Networks
> >>>have abandoned the NAB and these pages carry stories of new technical =
> >>>means=20
> >>>of bringing TV into homes without over the air broadcasters being =
> >>>involved.
> >>>What other conclusion is there to draw? Over The Air is going away.
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mark Aitken
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:21 PM
> >>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: AVSForum getting antsy over 8-VSB reception
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I would be glad to sit down and discuss/entertain/dream about
various=20
> >>>options. I will be spending time in LV after the show...name the=20
> >>>time/place and I'll be there. I am convinced that the only avenue
that=20
> >>>could possibly change the present course/situation is through Congress.
> >>>The question of whether we SHOULD (or not) meet...well, that is
another=20
> >>>matter...:-) Open for discussion.
> >>>
> >>>Stephen W. Long wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Another question: How do you get ATSC reception when you are hiding
in
> >>>>your basement riding out a hurricane or tornado or HLS event? My =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>analog
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>NTSC signal in my basement using rabbit ears is snowy but can be =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>received,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and my family spent a long evening watching the local news and weather
> >>>>while a tornado went skipping through Northern Virginia last year. =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>There
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>is no ATSC reception at all in my basement (that my 2nd generation box
> >>>>could see - no channel reception at all).
> >>>>
> >>>>I argued back in 98 or so that reliance on a roof mounted antenna =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>during
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>bad weather events was not a good plan for the nation.
> >>>>
> >>>>My points are still valid - no one from ATSC has EVER provided a =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>reasonable
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>suggestion as to how 8VSB would handle emergency condition broadcasts.
> >>>>Their answer then (and now I believe) was to use 2VSB. Well, ok, how
=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>many
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>of the legacy 8VSB systems out there will do 2VSB? None that I have =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>ever
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>read about. How many transmitters (exciters) are ready to do 2VSB? =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>many I'll wager.
> >>>>
> >>>>The most fascinating lie I am anticipating receiving is the argument =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>it will be ok to disenfranchise all of the existing receivers to give
=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>all
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>new receivers the ability to also receive 2VSB, have the broadcast =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>flag,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>etc. The lie will be that it will be ok to change to support changes
=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the ATSC spec and require new receivers, but not entertain a change to
> >>>>COFDM because it will disenfranchise the existing receivers.
> >>>>
> >>>>The roll out of ATSC receivers has been so poor that there may
actually =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>be
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>an opportunity next year to propose a new system, using the more
robust
> >>>>versions of COFDM coming out of Japan, etc., using H.264 for =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>compression,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>native IP support, etc. To add even more fuel to the fire, we could =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>find a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>way to specify HDTV using H.264 using less than 6MHz RF channels. =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Wouldn't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>THAT cause some stir. We could double/triple the number of over the =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>air
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>channels, not to mention the ability to shut down all non-SFN
repeaters
> >>>>that use up so many of the high UHF channels today.
> >>>>
> >>>>Should a group of us meet at the end of NAB, spend a long weekend =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>writing a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>new US DTV specification, and submit it to CONGRESS (not the #$%^&*
FCC
> >>>>staff that got us into this mess)?
> >>>>
> >>>>At 07:59 AM 2/23/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>>=20
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>He was technically correct because ATSC was designed for
directional=20
> >>>>>rooftop antennas. That was an incredibly stupid decision but =
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>supposedly=20
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>true.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I would love for Congress to actually pin down everybody involved as
=
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>to=20
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>whether they actually believe the digital transition can complete=20
> >>>>>without economical and functional indoor set top antenna reception.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- Tom
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Bob Miller wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Some are complaining that we need those 5th gen receivers now and=20
> >>>>>>bringing up old 8-VSB performance data, recently a big NO NO.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In answer to CKNA on AVSForum dirk1843 puts it best....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> =20
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
>
>>>>http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=3Dc1d8d3905cfcbb1352091a
=
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>337d47
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>9339&threadid=3D496065
> >>>>=20
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>"I think most of the problem, is as CKNA said, poor antenna install
=
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>or=20
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>wrong type for area."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>What can I say, now I understand, 8-VSB was designed for the right =
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>type=20
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>of area and some of us just happen to live in a "wrong type of
area".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Now it all makes sense.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Bob Miller
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>=20
>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Mark A. Aitken Director, Advanced Technology
> >>>
> >>>***********************************
> >>>Sinclair Broadcast Group
> >>>10706 Beaver Dam Road
> >>>Hunt Valley, MD 21030
> >>>Business TEL: (410) 568-1535
> >>>Business MOBILE: (443) 677-4425
> >>>Business FAX: (410) 568-1580
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>>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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> >>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>
> >>>"America will never be destroyed
> >>
> >>>from the outside. If we falter
> >>
> >>>and lose our freedoms, it will be
> >>>because we destroyed ourselves."
> >>>
> >>>~ ~ ~ Abraham Lincoln ~ ~ ~
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> >>
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unsubscribe in the subject line.
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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