[opendtv] Re: AVSForum getting antsy over 8-VSB reception
- From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:59:25 -0500
Actually I think the future of both entertainment and all other
connectivity is something like Internet over UWB in turn delivered to
the home and curb with fiber. Everywhere.
In this scenario the broadcasters can probably only offer local content.
And there is nowhere near either the supply or demand for local
content to support the current number of broadcasters. Right now they
just happen to have must carry and exclusive network contracts going for
them.
But they can hope to either bargain an analog cutoff for multiple must
carry or to squat on the spectrum until they are bought off in some
other fashion.
- Tom
Cliff Benham wrote:
> Why would networks bear the cost of O&O OTA broadcast facilities when
> they can cover their viewers with satellite and cable?
> They would still have a local studio and do news but they wouldn't have
> to pay for all the power and upkeep of the stick.
> If, in 10 years, 99.5% of the Philadelphia viewers can get all the DTV
> 'network channels' over cable and satellite why would the broadcasters
> continue to pay for maintenance and power for a 1500 ft tower and
> transmitters? It doesn't make economic sense if you consider the
> power costs alone.
> Tom Barry wrote:
>
>
>>I don't think OTA is going away. But it seems possible the non-O&O
>>stations may all fail. They sort of are caught in a squeeze between the
>>network content owners and the need to be carried on cable. So if OTA
>>is not feasible and the networks gradually offer affiliates less and
>>less attractive terms I'm not sure what sort of bargaining position the
>>NAB members can maintain.
>>
>>As Craig says, it is probably just ownership caps that keep them alive.
>>
>>Eventually the networks or other associated Hollywood entities will
>>probably acquire them somehow and we can then change to a new model of
>>some sort. At that time we will probably come up with some new
>>broadcast standard, either as another transition or by high-ish
>>definition mobile video gradually winning a competitive war.
>>
>>Meanwhile the independents will bleed and we will all continue to wonder
>>what is going on, with so many apparently inexplicable decisions by the
>>power players.
>>
>>- Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>Cliff Benham wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Why bother? What's really happening is that over the air broadcasting=20
>>>is going to be gone in 10 years or so. Why else would the FCC chose a
>>>system that doesn't work? Look at what is happening. Cable and satellite
>>>supply television to 85% of the homes in the US right now. The Networks
>>>have abandoned the NAB and these pages carry stories of new technical =
>>>means=20
>>>of bringing TV into homes without over the air broadcasters being =
>>>involved.
>>>What other conclusion is there to draw? Over The Air is going away.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mark Aitken
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:21 PM
>>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: AVSForum getting antsy over 8-VSB reception
>>>
>>>
>>>I would be glad to sit down and discuss/entertain/dream about various=20
>>>options. I will be spending time in LV after the show...name the=20
>>>time/place and I'll be there. I am convinced that the only avenue that=20
>>>could possibly change the present course/situation is through Congress.
>>>The question of whether we SHOULD (or not) meet...well, that is another=20
>>>matter...:-) Open for discussion.
>>>
>>>Stephen W. Long wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another question: How do you get ATSC reception when you are hiding in
>>>>your basement riding out a hurricane or tornado or HLS event? My =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>analog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>NTSC signal in my basement using rabbit ears is snowy but can be =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>received,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>and my family spent a long evening watching the local news and weather
>>>>while a tornado went skipping through Northern Virginia last year. =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>There
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>is no ATSC reception at all in my basement (that my 2nd generation box
>>>>could see - no channel reception at all).
>>>>
>>>>I argued back in 98 or so that reliance on a roof mounted antenna =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>during
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>bad weather events was not a good plan for the nation.
>>>>
>>>>My points are still valid - no one from ATSC has EVER provided a =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>reasonable
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>suggestion as to how 8VSB would handle emergency condition broadcasts.
>>>>Their answer then (and now I believe) was to use 2VSB. Well, ok, how =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>many
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>of the legacy 8VSB systems out there will do 2VSB? None that I have =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>ever
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>read about. How many transmitters (exciters) are ready to do 2VSB? =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Not
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>many I'll wager.
>>>>
>>>>The most fascinating lie I am anticipating receiving is the argument =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>it will be ok to disenfranchise all of the existing receivers to give =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>new receivers the ability to also receive 2VSB, have the broadcast =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>flag,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>etc. The lie will be that it will be ok to change to support changes =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>in
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>the ATSC spec and require new receivers, but not entertain a change to
>>>>COFDM because it will disenfranchise the existing receivers.
>>>>
>>>>The roll out of ATSC receivers has been so poor that there may actually =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>be
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>an opportunity next year to propose a new system, using the more robust
>>>>versions of COFDM coming out of Japan, etc., using H.264 for =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>compression,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>native IP support, etc. To add even more fuel to the fire, we could =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>find a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>way to specify HDTV using H.264 using less than 6MHz RF channels. =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Wouldn't
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>THAT cause some stir. We could double/triple the number of over the =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>air
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>channels, not to mention the ability to shut down all non-SFN repeaters
>>>>that use up so many of the high UHF channels today.
>>>>
>>>>Should a group of us meet at the end of NAB, spend a long weekend =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>writing a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>new US DTV specification, and submit it to CONGRESS (not the #$%^&* FCC
>>>>staff that got us into this mess)?
>>>>
>>>>At 07:59 AM 2/23/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He was technically correct because ATSC was designed for directional=20
>>>>>rooftop antennas. That was an incredibly stupid decision but =
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>supposedly=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>true.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would love for Congress to actually pin down everybody involved as =
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>to=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>whether they actually believe the digital transition can complete=20
>>>>>without economical and functional indoor set top antenna reception.
>>>>>
>>>>>- Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob Miller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Some are complaining that we need those 5th gen receivers now and=20
>>>>>>bringing up old 8-VSB performance data, recently a big NO NO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In answer to CKNA on AVSForum dirk1843 puts it best....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=3Dc1d8d3905cfcbb1352091a=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>337d47
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>9339&threadid=3D496065
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>"I think most of the problem, is as CKNA said, poor antenna install =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>or=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>wrong type for area."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What can I say, now I understand, 8-VSB was designed for the right =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>type=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>of area and some of us just happen to live in a "wrong type of area".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now it all makes sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob Miller
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>at
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>FreeLists.org=20
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>word
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>>>
>>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>>>>>=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>FreeLists.org=20
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>>>>>=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>=20
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>>
>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>FreeLists.org=20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--=20
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Mark A. Aitken Director, Advanced Technology
>>>
>>>***********************************
>>>Sinclair Broadcast Group
>>>10706 Beaver Dam Road
>>>Hunt Valley, MD 21030
>>>Business TEL: (410) 568-1535
>>>Business MOBILE: (443) 677-4425
>>>Business FAX: (410) 568-1580
>>>E-mail: maitken@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>Text PAGE: page.maitken@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>www.newscentral.tv
>>>www.sbgi.net
>>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>>>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>>"America will never be destroyed
>>
>>>from the outside. If we falter
>>
>>>and lose our freedoms, it will be
>>>because we destroyed ourselves."
>>>
>>>~ ~ ~ Abraham Lincoln ~ ~ ~
>>>***********************************
>>>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>>>
>>>This email message and any files transmitted with it contain
>>>confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom this
>>>email message is addressed. If you have received this email message in
>>>error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone or email and
>>>destroy the original message without making a copy. Thank you.
>>>***********************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>
>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at =
>>>FreeLists.org=20
>>>
>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word =
>>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>
>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>>>FreeLists.org
>>>
>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>
>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>>FreeLists.org
>>
>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>>unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Other related posts:
