[mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
- From: Sarah Alawami <marrie12@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 16:03:52 -0700
We could, how ever the organizations have something I aint got.. Loyers.
On Sep 1, 2011, at 3:18 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
> http://www.nfb.org
> but you are better off contacting developpers.
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 5:57 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>
> No but you can contact the nfb maybe by cooling there bultimore office. I
> don't have that number although I should have it memorized by now ll!
>
> take care.
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Justin Harford wrote:
>
>> Anyone got the phone of the National Organization of Blind Spaniards?
>> El 01-09-2011, a las 13:38, Bubba escribió:
>>
>>> You might have appoint. But other than writing them as a individual I don't
>>> think there is much we can do unless there is a blind billion nare out there
>>> somewhere!
>>>
>>>
>>> Sign,
>>> Bubba
>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>> Poehlman
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:32 PM
>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>>
>>> once upon a time, computers were made to talk. The speech was slow and
>>> horrible and hugely expensive. Even though they could talk, they were not
>>> used in the workplace because the estamblishment at the time did not want to
>>> bare the cost and the software was not accessible to the talking computer.
>>>
>>> Then along came software that made it possible for the workplace products to
>>> be made accessible and all of a sudden, we had employers willing to accept
>>> these talking computer product in the work place because they ran the tools
>>> of the office.
>>>
>>> Now, on the mac we have a similar situation. Employers will not use other
>>> tools just for the sake of accessibility no matter how good they are.
>>>
>>> I agree that it would be a positive step for iwork to be accessible but
>>> microsoft office on the mac *needs* to be accessible if employers are going
>>> to take voice over in the work place seriously.
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>>
>>> That is why we should focus on getting Apple to make I Work a high-end
>>> productivity tool and focus on getting Mac in place of windows machines and
>>> away from MS office. Then these people that is blind would not have to worry
>>> about if they could use office or not. I just think let's take a different
>>> approach then trying to get MS to make something accessible when I don't
>>> think they really care as they all ready know we want it accessible and they
>>> have not budge on it. It will take a large organization with lots of money
>>> to take them to court and get them to make it accessible and believe me it
>>> would take lots of money and time. JMT
>>>
>>>
>>> Sign,
>>> Bubba
>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>> Poehlman
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:09 PM
>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>>
>>> I'm not worried about the mac user. I'm worried about the majority of
>>> employers who will not hire blind mac users because they cannot use
>>> microsoft office for mac.
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, and not saying that Mac is not gaining in the work force. I think they
>>> are and that is why I say let's forget MS and focus on Apple and it office
>>> suite and making it a high end productivity tool and as accessible as it can
>>> get. Then Mac user would not have to worry about MS. I say if this gets done
>>> and then focus on getting government and enterprise business to pick up the
>>> Mac in place of their windows machine. JSMT
>>>
>>>
>>> Sign,
>>> Bubba
>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:59 PM
>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>>
>>> macs are also very popular in academia. Several of my colleagues use
>>> them, and very few, in fact, I can't think of any, who use MS office.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> At 20:49 01/09/2011, you wrote:
>>>> Fortunately, this is changing. Particularly over the last 2
>>>> years, the halo effect of the iPad and iPhone has been leading
>>>> enterprise away from Windows and Office. In fact, having little to
>>>> do with Apple, Office is becoming a dying dinosaur. Google docs
>>>> and third party office developers who offer free or low cost office
>>>> suites are starting to hurt Microsoft significantly.
>>>>
>>>> As the fortune 500 companies go, the rest of the business
>>>> world goes. Something like 85 percent are using iPhones and iPads
>>>> and 40 percent are deploying Macs in the work place. Yes, in the
>>>> "big picture" at the moment, Windows dominates the enterprise
>>>> market, but that is chaining and changing faster than a lot of
>>>> people realize. Read up on recent trends and you'll see that Apple
>>>> is not the only company Microsoft is losing market share to.
>>>>
>>>> As for MS and accessibility, the more pressure put on them, the
>>>> more likely they will have to deal with accessibility. Enough
>>>> black eyes given in the media and a few publicized lawsuits will go
>>>> a long way. And I am not one who advocates using legal channels at
>>>> every turn either. Will the NFB ever step up to take action in this area?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Take Care
>>>>
>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>> Director
>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>
>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, if you have a Mac you can run boot camp and put windows on
>>>> it. Also you
>>>>> can use a windows machine. NO you cannot wish it to happen. But that is
>>>>> about all your hope is with MS making office on the Mac accessible to
>>> us.
>>>>> Making MS accessible on the Mac really has nothing to do with the work
>>>>> place. Especially government if you are working with the government. Or
>>> for
>>>>> that matter most of private enterprise goes. They use mostly
>>>> Windows machine
>>>>> with MS office and if you want a Job you will learn to use windows
>>> machine
>>>>> with windows screen reader and MS office. I don't see MS anytime
>>>> soon making
>>>>> office on the Mac accessible. Like it or not 90 percent of the PC users
>>> are
>>>>> Windows users. We are a very small part of that 90 percent and even less
>>> of
>>>>> the other 10 percent that uses other OS. If anything I think we should
>>>>> encourage Apple to make I work more accessible and more like the MS
>>> office
>>>>> as a very good production tool. This in my thoughts would be the best is
>>> to
>>>>> use what is already accessible to us and build on it. But this is my
>>>>> thoughts and it really to me sound like you are just PO with MS about
>>> not
>>>>> making MS office on the Mac accessible. I would like it to be this would
>>> be
>>>>> great but it would not be a deal breaker or would it stop me in my
>>> present
>>>>> job or getting another job. If I needed windows and a windows screen
>>> reader
>>>>> and Ms office for the Job and I really wanted the job then I would foot
>>> the
>>>>> bill or get help footing the bill and do what it took and not cry and
>>> all
>>>>> about it. I not asking for a hand out or anything I am happy for
>>> anything I
>>>>> can get and any help I can get but when it comes down to it I have me to
>>>>> rely on not hoping for something that more than likely not going to
>>> happen.
>>>>> So write MS about it I don't think it will do any good. Now this is all
>>> I
>>>>> have to say about this. JMT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign,
>>>>> Bubba
>>>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>>>> Poehlman
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:03 PM
>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>>>>
>>>>> You cannot do that in the work place, this is not mac accessibility. we
>>>>> cannot stand by and "wish".
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I agree and wish they would do it. But till they do then will have
>>> to
>>>>> use either a windows machine or do boot camp and run windows on the Mac
>>> and
>>>>> use a Windows screen reader either paid or free like NVDA .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sign,
>>>>> Bubba
>>>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>>>> Poehlman
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:28 PM
>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the mac?
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft office needs to be made accessible because it is too
>>>> entrenched in
>>>>> the corporate world to ignore and as long as it can be used on other
>>>>> platforms accessibly, blind folks using the mac will be left out in the
>>>>> cold. Serious productivity in the workplace cannot move forward
>>>> without it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Iwork leaves a lot to be desired even without accessibility
>>> considerations.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually we all contacted Microsoft on there page regarding microsoft
>>> for
>>>>> the mac in late 2007 or 8, and they just shrugged os off. Same thing
>>>>> happened with Microsoft for the mac this year when they came out
>>>> with a new
>>>>> version. I'm not one normally to give up but I am in this case as I'm
>>> not
>>>>> willing to pay over $400 for something I can get for $20 or less at the
>>>>> M.A.S If pages and numbers were made a bit more useable, and I think it
>>>>> will, I think we can have the equivalent of a product for a lot less of
>>> the
>>>>> price.
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:07 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember the days before accessibility when computers were just black
>>>>> boxes to us and how long and tortuous the road to accessibility was. We
>>>>> live in a similar time but the difference is that at least some
>>>>> accessibility is already in place. That accessibility though is old and
>>>>> tired and even though it's been bandaided and patched, sooner or later,
>>> it
>>>>> will no longer serve so we need to be certain that accessibility
>>> continues
>>>>> and this is where the mac comes in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some say that ios or some other similar tiny platform will rule the day
>>>>> and although may eventually be the case, we still have a gap that needs
>>> to
>>>>> be filled and in these days of a shrinking economy and dwindling
>>> resources,
>>>>> a golden opportunity exists for mac os to shine forth in accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:32 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just us chickens. we need to generate interest in examining
>>> applications
>>>>> and reporting findings to developpers mainly in the cases of iwork and
>>>>> office to apple and microsoft respectively.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Gaylen Floy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What course of action is available to us? Is there an affiliate of the
>>> two
>>>>>> consumer organizations that tackles this kind of problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gaylen Floy, Federal Way, Washington
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> spreadsheets and documents and presentations, oh my!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many blind folk are successfully employed for performing tasks which
>>>>> involve
>>>>>> the above and have been for many years. Few if any though are using
>>> the
>>>>> mac
>>>>>> for many reasons but I want to focus on moving forward in areas in
>>> which
>>>>> we
>>>>>> can move forward and to focus your attention and seek your assistance
>>> with
>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need gallant folk to step up to Microsoft and shout out that office
>>>>> needs
>>>>>> to be made accessible in order that the market for blind employees will
>>> be
>>>>>> wider. To do this, folk must provide concrete detailed and factual
>>>>>> information about the issues of using Microsoft office on the mac. You
>>>>> can
>>>>>> even find some good stuff that is already written and submit it to
>>> them.
>>>>> I
>>>>>> don't have a handle on the Microsoft stream and cannot purchase the
>>>>> product
>>>>>> so cannot help directly but am willing to help in any other way I can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to provide solid feedback to apple on issues related to IWork
>>> from
>>>>> a
>>>>>> productivity standpoint. Some employers will be willing to accept a
>>> blind
>>>>>> person with a mac since we can export office formats and they would be
>>>>>> willing to mix systems if they are able.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to locate employers willing to work with us and rehab or other
>>>>>> agencies who are willing to take on the challenge if for nothing less
>>> than
>>>>>> the potential cost savings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that there are a myriad of issues which we face with regard to
>>> this
>>>>>> ultimate goal of prominent positioning of mac in the work place of the
>>>>>> blind, but if we work together, perhaps we can move forward and provide
>>>>>> assistance in this important effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that there are efforts ongoing at apple and lots of feedback
>>> coming
>>>>>> to them which they are paying attention to and which is helping to
>>> guide
>>>>>> them toward better accessibility. I'd like though to discuss
>>> experiences
>>>>>> and desires and perhaps translate some of those into meaningful dialog
>>>>> with
>>>>>> apple and microsoft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you will attend to this important topic with me and I hope I've
>>> not
>>>>>> overstepped any bounds as an unintended consequence of this letter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the best.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>> with his
>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>> with his
>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>> with his
>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>> to
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>> to
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>>>>>
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>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> with his
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>> to
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>
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>>> to
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> with his
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>> to
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
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>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
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>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
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>>> ************
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>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
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>>> ************
>>>
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>>
>> ************
>>
>>
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>>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
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>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
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> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> reducing technology's disabilities
> one byte at a time
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
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> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
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