[mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
- From: Justin Harford <blindstein@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 13:41:17 -0700
Anyone got the phone of the National Organization of Blind Spaniards?
El 01-09-2011, a las 13:38, Bubba escribió:
> You might have appoint. But other than writing them as a individual I don't
> think there is much we can do unless there is a blind billion nare out there
> somewhere!
>
>
> Sign,
> Bubba
> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
> Poehlman
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:32 PM
> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>
> once upon a time, computers were made to talk. The speech was slow and
> horrible and hugely expensive. Even though they could talk, they were not
> used in the workplace because the estamblishment at the time did not want to
> bare the cost and the software was not accessible to the talking computer.
>
> Then along came software that made it possible for the workplace products to
> be made accessible and all of a sudden, we had employers willing to accept
> these talking computer product in the work place because they ran the tools
> of the office.
>
> Now, on the mac we have a similar situation. Employers will not use other
> tools just for the sake of accessibility no matter how good they are.
>
> I agree that it would be a positive step for iwork to be accessible but
> microsoft office on the mac *needs* to be accessible if employers are going
> to take voice over in the work place seriously.
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Bubba wrote:
>
> That is why we should focus on getting Apple to make I Work a high-end
> productivity tool and focus on getting Mac in place of windows machines and
> away from MS office. Then these people that is blind would not have to worry
> about if they could use office or not. I just think let's take a different
> approach then trying to get MS to make something accessible when I don't
> think they really care as they all ready know we want it accessible and they
> have not budge on it. It will take a large organization with lots of money
> to take them to court and get them to make it accessible and believe me it
> would take lots of money and time. JMT
>
>
> Sign,
> Bubba
> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
> Poehlman
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:09 PM
> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>
> I'm not worried about the mac user. I'm worried about the majority of
> employers who will not hire blind mac users because they cannot use
> microsoft office for mac.
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Bubba wrote:
>
> Yes, and not saying that Mac is not gaining in the work force. I think they
> are and that is why I say let's forget MS and focus on Apple and it office
> suite and making it a high end productivity tool and as accessible as it can
> get. Then Mac user would not have to worry about MS. I say if this gets done
> and then focus on getting government and enterprise business to pick up the
> Mac in place of their windows machine. JSMT
>
>
> Sign,
> Bubba
> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:59 PM
> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>
> macs are also very popular in academia. Several of my colleagues use
> them, and very few, in fact, I can't think of any, who use MS office.
>
> John
>
> At 20:49 01/09/2011, you wrote:
>> Fortunately, this is changing. Particularly over the last 2
>> years, the halo effect of the iPad and iPhone has been leading
>> enterprise away from Windows and Office. In fact, having little to
>> do with Apple, Office is becoming a dying dinosaur. Google docs
>> and third party office developers who offer free or low cost office
>> suites are starting to hurt Microsoft significantly.
>>
>> As the fortune 500 companies go, the rest of the business
>> world goes. Something like 85 percent are using iPhones and iPads
>> and 40 percent are deploying Macs in the work place. Yes, in the
>> "big picture" at the moment, Windows dominates the enterprise
>> market, but that is chaining and changing faster than a lot of
>> people realize. Read up on recent trends and you'll see that Apple
>> is not the only company Microsoft is losing market share to.
>>
>> As for MS and accessibility, the more pressure put on them, the
>> more likely they will have to deal with accessibility. Enough
>> black eyes given in the media and a few publicized lawsuits will go
>> a long way. And I am not one who advocates using legal channels at
>> every turn either. Will the NFB ever step up to take action in this area?
>>
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, if you have a Mac you can run boot camp and put windows on
>> it. Also you
>>> can use a windows machine. NO you cannot wish it to happen. But that is
>>> about all your hope is with MS making office on the Mac accessible to
> us.
>>> Making MS accessible on the Mac really has nothing to do with the work
>>> place. Especially government if you are working with the government. Or
> for
>>> that matter most of private enterprise goes. They use mostly
>> Windows machine
>>> with MS office and if you want a Job you will learn to use windows
> machine
>>> with windows screen reader and MS office. I don't see MS anytime
>> soon making
>>> office on the Mac accessible. Like it or not 90 percent of the PC users
> are
>>> Windows users. We are a very small part of that 90 percent and even less
> of
>>> the other 10 percent that uses other OS. If anything I think we should
>>> encourage Apple to make I work more accessible and more like the MS
> office
>>> as a very good production tool. This in my thoughts would be the best is
> to
>>> use what is already accessible to us and build on it. But this is my
>>> thoughts and it really to me sound like you are just PO with MS about
> not
>>> making MS office on the Mac accessible. I would like it to be this would
> be
>>> great but it would not be a deal breaker or would it stop me in my
> present
>>> job or getting another job. If I needed windows and a windows screen
> reader
>>> and Ms office for the Job and I really wanted the job then I would foot
> the
>>> bill or get help footing the bill and do what it took and not cry and
> all
>>> about it. I not asking for a hand out or anything I am happy for
> anything I
>>> can get and any help I can get but when it comes down to it I have me to
>>> rely on not hoping for something that more than likely not going to
> happen.
>>> So write MS about it I don't think it will do any good. Now this is all
> I
>>> have to say about this. JMT
>>>
>>>
>>> Sign,
>>> Bubba
>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>> Poehlman
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:03 PM
>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>>
>>> You cannot do that in the work place, this is not mac accessibility. we
>>> cannot stand by and "wish".
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree and wish they would do it. But till they do then will have
> to
>>> use either a windows machine or do boot camp and run windows on the Mac
> and
>>> use a Windows screen reader either paid or free like NVDA .
>>>
>>>
>>> Sign,
>>> Bubba
>>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>>> Poehlman
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:28 PM
>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the mac?
>>>
>>> Microsoft office needs to be made accessible because it is too
>> entrenched in
>>> the corporate world to ignore and as long as it can be used on other
>>> platforms accessibly, blind folks using the mac will be left out in the
>>> cold. Serious productivity in the workplace cannot move forward
>> without it.
>>>
>>> Iwork leaves a lot to be desired even without accessibility
> considerations.
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually we all contacted Microsoft on there page regarding microsoft
> for
>>> the mac in late 2007 or 8, and they just shrugged os off. Same thing
>>> happened with Microsoft for the mac this year when they came out
>> with a new
>>> version. I'm not one normally to give up but I am in this case as I'm
> not
>>> willing to pay over $400 for something I can get for $20 or less at the
>>> M.A.S If pages and numbers were made a bit more useable, and I think it
>>> will, I think we can have the equivalent of a product for a lot less of
> the
>>> price.
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:07 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember the days before accessibility when computers were just black
>>> boxes to us and how long and tortuous the road to accessibility was. We
>>> live in a similar time but the difference is that at least some
>>> accessibility is already in place. That accessibility though is old and
>>> tired and even though it's been bandaided and patched, sooner or later,
> it
>>> will no longer serve so we need to be certain that accessibility
> continues
>>> and this is where the mac comes in.
>>>>
>>>> Some say that ios or some other similar tiny platform will rule the day
>>> and although may eventually be the case, we still have a gap that needs
> to
>>> be filled and in these days of a shrinking economy and dwindling
> resources,
>>> a golden opportunity exists for mac os to shine forth in accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:32 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just us chickens. we need to generate interest in examining
> applications
>>> and reporting findings to developpers mainly in the cases of iwork and
>>> office to apple and microsoft respectively.
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Gaylen Floy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What course of action is available to us? Is there an affiliate of the
> two
>>>> consumer organizations that tackles this kind of problem?
>>>>
>>>> Gaylen Floy, Federal Way, Washington
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> spreadsheets and documents and presentations, oh my!
>>>>
>>>> Many blind folk are successfully employed for performing tasks which
>>> involve
>>>> the above and have been for many years. Few if any though are using
> the
>>> mac
>>>> for many reasons but I want to focus on moving forward in areas in
> which
>>> we
>>>> can move forward and to focus your attention and seek your assistance
> with
>>>> those.
>>>>
>>>> We need gallant folk to step up to Microsoft and shout out that office
>>> needs
>>>> to be made accessible in order that the market for blind employees will
> be
>>>> wider. To do this, folk must provide concrete detailed and factual
>>>> information about the issues of using Microsoft office on the mac. You
>>> can
>>>> even find some good stuff that is already written and submit it to
> them.
>>> I
>>>> don't have a handle on the Microsoft stream and cannot purchase the
>>> product
>>>> so cannot help directly but am willing to help in any other way I can.
>>>>
>>>> We need to provide solid feedback to apple on issues related to IWork
> from
>>> a
>>>> productivity standpoint. Some employers will be willing to accept a
> blind
>>>> person with a mac since we can export office formats and they would be
>>>> willing to mix systems if they are able.
>>>>
>>>> We need to locate employers willing to work with us and rehab or other
>>>> agencies who are willing to take on the challenge if for nothing less
> than
>>>> the potential cost savings.
>>>>
>>>> I know that there are a myriad of issues which we face with regard to
> this
>>>> ultimate goal of prominent positioning of mac in the work place of the
>>>> blind, but if we work together, perhaps we can move forward and provide
>>>> assistance in this important effort.
>>>>
>>>> I know that there are efforts ongoing at apple and lots of feedback
> coming
>>>> to them which they are paying attention to and which is helping to
> guide
>>>> them toward better accessibility. I'd like though to discuss
> experiences
>>>> and desires and perhaps translate some of those into meaningful dialog
>>> with
>>>> apple and microsoft.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you will attend to this important topic with me and I hope I've
> not
>>>> overstepped any bounds as an unintended consequence of this letter.
>>>>
>>>> All the best.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> with his
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> with his
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> with his
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
> to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
> to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
> to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
> to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
> to
>>> their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
>>
>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>
>> The list archive is located at
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>
>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> reducing technology's disabilities
> one byte at a time
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> with his
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> reducing technology's disabilities
> one byte at a time
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
************
You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
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