[mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
- From: "Bubba" <bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:32:17 -0400
Well, if I understand the office suite for Mac does not even include
outlook. So what about that. I know you say use the Mac built in mail client
but that don't work as here again especially government agency use office
and you will need to use outlook. And since the office for the Mac as I
understand it does not include outlook this is just compounding the problem
and just making it more trouble than it is worth to me. JMT
Bubba
bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
Poehlman
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:51 AM
To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
It is true that iwork needs work accessibility notwithstanding
accessibility. It is also true thouogh that most work in the office is done
with microsoft office products and that is something that needs to be dealt
with.
On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:33 PM, Gaylen Floy wrote:
Have any of you VoiceOver users tried iWorks Pages? If so, what do you think
of it? -- Gaylen
That is why we should focus on getting Apple to make I Work a high-end
productivity tool and focus on getting Mac in place of windows machines and
away from MS office. Then these people that is blind would not have to worry
about if they could use office or not. I just think let's take a different
approach then trying to get MS to make something accessible when I don't
think they really care as they all ready know we want it accessible and they
have not budge on it. It will take a large organization with lots of money
to take them to court and get them to make it accessible and believe me it
would take lots of money and time. JMT
Sign,
Bubba
bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
Poehlman
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:09 PM
To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
I'm not worried about the mac user. I'm worried about the majority of
employers who will not hire blind mac users because they cannot use
microsoft office for mac.
On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Bubba wrote:
Yes, and not saying that Mac is not gaining in the work force. I think they
are and that is why I say let's forget MS and focus on Apple and it office
suite and making it a high end productivity tool and as accessible as it can
get. Then Mac user would not have to worry about MS. I say if this gets done
and then focus on getting government and enterprise business to pick up the
Mac in place of their windows machine. JSMT
Sign,
Bubba
bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:59 PM
To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
macs are also very popular in academia. Several of my colleagues use them,
and very few, in fact, I can't think of any, who use MS office.
John
At 20:49 01/09/2011, you wrote:
> Fortunately, this is changing. Particularly over the last 2 years,
> the halo effect of the iPad and iPhone has been leading enterprise
> away from Windows and Office. In fact, having little to do with
> Apple, Office is becoming a dying dinosaur. Google docs and third
> party office developers who offer free or low cost office suites are
> starting to hurt Microsoft significantly.
>
> As the fortune 500 companies go, the rest of the business world
> goes. Something like 85 percent are using iPhones and iPads and 40
> percent are deploying Macs in the work place. Yes, in the "big
> picture" at the moment, Windows dominates the enterprise market, but
> that is chaining and changing faster than a lot of people realize.
> Read up on recent trends and you'll see that Apple is not the only
> company Microsoft is losing market share to.
>
> As for MS and accessibility, the more pressure put on them, the more
> likely they will have to deal with accessibility. Enough black eyes
> given in the media and a few publicized lawsuits will go a long way.
> And I am not one who advocates using legal channels at every turn
> either. Will the NFB ever step up to take action in this area?
>
>
> Take Care
>
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND
> SUPPORT
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Bubba wrote:
>
>> Yes, if you have a Mac you can run boot camp and put windows on
> it. Also you
>> can use a windows machine. NO you cannot wish it to happen. But that
>> is about all your hope is with MS making office on the Mac accessible
>> to
us.
>> Making MS accessible on the Mac really has nothing to do with the
>> work place. Especially government if you are working with the
>> government. Or
for
>> that matter most of private enterprise goes. They use mostly
> Windows machine
>> with MS office and if you want a Job you will learn to use windows
machine
>> with windows screen reader and MS office. I don't see MS anytime
> soon making
>> office on the Mac accessible. Like it or not 90 percent of the PC
>> users
are
>> Windows users. We are a very small part of that 90 percent and even
>> less
of
>> the other 10 percent that uses other OS. If anything I think we
>> should encourage Apple to make I work more accessible and more like
>> the MS
office
>> as a very good production tool. This in my thoughts would be the best
>> is
to
>> use what is already accessible to us and build on it. But this is my
>> thoughts and it really to me sound like you are just PO with MS about
not
>> making MS office on the Mac accessible. I would like it to be this
>> would
be
>> great but it would not be a deal breaker or would it stop me in my
present
>> job or getting another job. If I needed windows and a windows screen
reader
>> and Ms office for the Job and I really wanted the job then I would
>> foot
the
>> bill or get help footing the bill and do what it took and not cry and
all
>> about it. I not asking for a hand out or anything I am happy for
anything I
>> can get and any help I can get but when it comes down to it I have me
>> to rely on not hoping for something that more than likely not going
>> to
happen.
>> So write MS about it I don't think it will do any good. Now this is
>> all
I
>> have to say about this. JMT
>>
>>
>> Sign,
>> Bubba
>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>> Poehlman
>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:03 PM
>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac?
>>
>> You cannot do that in the work place, this is not mac accessibility.
>> we cannot stand by and "wish".
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Bubba wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree and wish they would do it. But till they do then will
>> have
to
>> use either a windows machine or do boot camp and run windows on the
>> Mac
and
>> use a Windows screen reader either paid or free like NVDA .
>>
>>
>> Sign,
>> Bubba
>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert
>> Poehlman
>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:28 PM
>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the mac?
>>
>> Microsoft office needs to be made accessible because it is too
> entrenched in
>> the corporate world to ignore and as long as it can be used on other
>> platforms accessibly, blind folks using the mac will be left out in
>> the cold. Serious productivity in the workplace cannot move forward
> without it.
>>
>> Iwork leaves a lot to be desired even without accessibility
considerations.
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>
>> Actually we all contacted Microsoft on there page regarding microsoft
for
>> the mac in late 2007 or 8, and they just shrugged os off. Same thing
>> happened with Microsoft for the mac this year when they came out
> with a new
>> version. I'm not one normally to give up but I am in this case as I'm
not
>> willing to pay over $400 for something I can get for $20 or less at
>> the M.A.S If pages and numbers were made a bit more useable, and I
>> think it will, I think we can have the equivalent of a product for a
>> lot less of
the
>> price.
>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:07 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>
>>> I remember the days before accessibility when computers were just
>>> black
>> boxes to us and how long and tortuous the road to accessibility was.
>> We live in a similar time but the difference is that at least some
>> accessibility is already in place. That accessibility though is old
>> and tired and even though it's been bandaided and patched, sooner or
>> later,
it
>> will no longer serve so we need to be certain that accessibility
continues
>> and this is where the mac comes in.
>>>
>>> Some say that ios or some other similar tiny platform will rule the
>>> day
>> and although may eventually be the case, we still have a gap that
>> needs
to
>> be filled and in these days of a shrinking economy and dwindling
resources,
>> a golden opportunity exists for mac os to shine forth in accessibility.
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:32 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>
>>> Just us chickens. we need to generate interest in examining
applications
>> and reporting findings to developpers mainly in the cases of iwork
>> and office to apple and microsoft respectively.
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Gaylen Floy wrote:
>>>
>>> What course of action is available to us? Is there an affiliate of
>>> the
two
>>> consumer organizations that tackles this kind of problem?
>>>
>>> Gaylen Floy, Federal Way, Washington
>>>
>>>
>>> spreadsheets and documents and presentations, oh my!
>>>
>>> Many blind folk are successfully employed for performing tasks which
>> involve
>>> the above and have been for many years. Few if any though are using
the
>> mac
>>> for many reasons but I want to focus on moving forward in areas in
which
>> we
>>> can move forward and to focus your attention and seek your
>>> assistance
with
>>> those.
>>>
>>> We need gallant folk to step up to Microsoft and shout out that
>>> office
>> needs
>>> to be made accessible in order that the market for blind employees
>>> will
be
>>> wider. To do this, folk must provide concrete detailed and factual
>>> information about the issues of using Microsoft office on the mac.
>>> You
>> can
>>> even find some good stuff that is already written and submit it to
them.
>> I
>>> don't have a handle on the Microsoft stream and cannot purchase the
>> product
>>> so cannot help directly but am willing to help in any other way I can.
>>>
>>> We need to provide solid feedback to apple on issues related to
>>> IWork
from
>> a
>>> productivity standpoint. Some employers will be willing to accept a
blind
>>> person with a mac since we can export office formats and they would
>>> be willing to mix systems if they are able.
>>>
>>> We need to locate employers willing to work with us and rehab or
>>> other agencies who are willing to take on the challenge if for
>>> nothing less
than
>>> the potential cost savings.
>>>
>>> I know that there are a myriad of issues which we face with regard
>>> to
this
>>> ultimate goal of prominent positioning of mac in the work place of
>>> the blind, but if we work together, perhaps we can move forward and
>>> provide assistance in this important effort.
>>>
>>> I know that there are efforts ongoing at apple and lots of feedback
coming
>>> to them which they are paying attention to and which is helping to
guide
>>> them toward better accessibility. I'd like though to discuss
experiences
>>> and desires and perhaps translate some of those into meaningful
>>> dialog
>> with
>>> apple and microsoft.
>>>
>>> I hope you will attend to this important topic with me and I hope
>>> I've
not
>>> overstepped any bounds as an unintended consequence of this letter.
>>>
>>> All the best.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>> to their list subscription is:
>>>
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>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
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>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
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>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
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>> their list subscription is:
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>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
to
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonnie Appleseed
>> with his
>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>> reducing technology's disabilities
>> one byte at a time
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
>>
>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
to
>> their list subscription is:
>>
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>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
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>>
>>
>> ************
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>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonnie Appleseed
>> with his
>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>> reducing technology's disabilities
>> one byte at a time
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
>>
>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes
to
>> their list subscription is:
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>>
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>>
>> ************
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>
> ************
>
>
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--
Jonnie Appleseed
with his
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
reducing technology's disabilities
one byte at a time
************
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Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
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