[mac4theblind] Re: What is the MacOS equivalent...
- From: Tracy Duffy <tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:39:46 -0500
Thank you John. That's really all I was driving at.
tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
2 Chronicles 20, 21B: "Give thanks to God, his faithful
love endures forever."
On Nov 29, 2011, at 7:58 PM, John Panarese wrote:
> I think there is a misunderstanding here. At least as far as what I said.
> Reference points and parallels are important when you are learning something
> new. I don't think anyone will disagree with that pointt.
>
> My point, though, is in order to learn the Mac and VoiceOver effectively,
> you have to let go of the Windows thinking. Holding on to it for too long
> simply stunts your ability to really grasp the Mac and VoiceOver. Expecting
> the Mac and VO to behave like Windows and your Windows screen reader will
> only lead to frustration. Yes, you need that frame or anchor in your mind to
> initially make the leap from Windows, but you should stride to cut that cord
> as quickly as you can. It will only help you in the long run and make your
> transition easier and smoother and faster.
>
> And let me say this as well while I am thinking of it. No question is
> stupid or silly. Not asking is stupid and silly. That's what this list is
> for. We're all here to help one another.
>
>
> Take Care
>
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>
>
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2011, at 7:53 PM, Justin Harford wrote:
>
>> I have never observed this on mac lists. In fact I have found mac lists,
>> including this one, to be very opened to questions which some could consider
>> silly or uninformed. For anyone who is unsure of this, I suggest they go to
>> one of the orca lists, and see how the linux community is.
>>
>> No one is offended if you try to use windows terminology to understand mac.
>> It is really more for your own benefit. it is a recommendation, not an
>> admonishment.
>>
>> Later
>> Justin
>> as 16:08, Tracy Duffy escribió:
>>
>>> I agree with what you are saying. It's just that instead of saying that the
>>> dock is where programs are listed, people often say that you should forget
>>> about task bar and learn mack terms and go on about it. I guess I just
>>> meant that giving them the answer is good, but that each time an answer is
>>> given, we don't need to hear that we should just forget about what we
>>> already knew. If that's your reference point, it's hard to hear that every
>>> time and not feel like you were wrong for asking a question. I have gotten
>>> much valuable information from this list and another one like it, but so
>>> often it came with that admonition that I almost got to the point where I
>>> was afraid to ask a question unless I already knew at least half of the
>>> answer. Maybe I'm just sensative and no one else feels that way. I havheard
>>> similar complaints from others though and perhaps I'm just the only one to
>>> step forward and say something about it.When a person is brand new to Mac,
>>> they may often ask a question using the terms they are familiar with, but
>>> we can give them the answer using the Mac terms and explain what
>>> differences and points they need to know. I simply don't want people to
>>> feel like they have to be really careful about how they ask a question. It
>>> seems like it should be most important to help them get the information and
>>> learn what they need to know.
>>>
>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>> 2 Chronicles 20, 21B: "Give thanks to God, his faithful
>>> love endures forever."
>>>
>>> On Nov 29, 2011, at 6:19 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>
>>>> For one thing, no one has done anything wrong by asking questions. For
>>>> two, we're not, in your word, swatting anyone's hands, but in other
>>>> people's defense, what are we gonna do, let peole keep saying, oh, that
>>>> drive is located on your desktop?
>>>>
>>>> For one, on a mac, it's not a drive. It's a volume. for two, the edrive
>>>> is not on the desktop, that is only a... shortcut?... or do we mean mac
>>>> term... alias,... which mounts to the desktop... in /Volume/VolumeName.
>>>>
>>>> That example is rather extreme, but, are we gonna let peole sit here and
>>>> say they browsed for a file through explorer? We don't have explorer on
>>>> the Mac, we have the Finder. It does the same exact things, but it's not
>>>> Windows. When we hit vo+shift+M, are we bringing up a context menu? No.
>>>> We're bringing up the shortcut menu.
>>>>
>>>> If you try asking someone who only knows mac what the task bar is, they're
>>>> gonna lookat you like... Huh? Wut? But if you said, where is the dock...
>>>> they'd know exactly.
>>>>
>>>> There are not that many terms to learn, and frankly, if you're not willing
>>>> to at least try to learn them... ok, I'll stop that comment... it's one
>>>> thing to try learning the termanology, but not be able to get your head
>>>> around it right away, thus fall back to windows terms that you know and
>>>> recognise for a time. That I promote. What I don't! promote, is never
>>>> even trying! to branch out and learn from a complete macintosh perspective.
>>>>
>>>> All in all, I'd say I half agree with your rant, but I also half disagree
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry if you took it as such that we were bashing the newbies, as that
>>>> is no one's intention here, and shame on anyone who does so. We all learn
>>>> at different paces, and at different levels, and with different styles.
>>>> Some may feel better reading, where others like myself, might benefit more
>>>> from an over the phone trainer as myself who for a very low nominal fee or
>>>> for nothing at all, just depending on circumstances can sit down with a
>>>> person one-on-one, and give them the support they need at their own speed.
>>>>
>>>> Chris.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tracy Duffy
>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:38 AM
>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: What is the MacOS equivalent...
>>>>
>>>> I respect the opinions that are given here, but may I say that when I
>>>> transitioned in June, it was helpful to me to at least use window terms or
>>>> reference points when trying to find how how to accomplish what I needed
>>>> or wanted to accomplish. Personally, I hate having my hand swatted every
>>>> time I make a reference to a windows term. If a body is brand new to the
>>>> Mac, they don't always know the proper term and the only way they may know
>>>> to ask a question is by using the terms that they do know. It is true that
>>>> you can't expect the Mac to work exactly like a windows PC, but for
>>>> gooeness sake, let's work with people who are trying to learn. The same
>>>> thing goes when a body is trying to find software that works with a Mac.
>>>> Often times they may know a program that did what they wanted in windoes,
>>>> so they will ask if there is a version for the Mac, or if anyone knows of
>>>> a similar program for the Mac. I don't see why they have to get a lecture
>>>> about forgetting windows terms and programs. Just give them an answer. I
>>>> only say these things because I grew very tired of it when I was asking a
>>>> lot of questions. Yes. I learned the Mac in a very short period of time,
>>>> but that didn't mean I had all the answers. I know you all mean well, but
>>>> try not to give people the impression that they've done something wrong by
>>>> asking a question. I'll step down from my soap box now. (smile)
>>>>
>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> 2 Chronicles 20, 21B: "Give thanks to God, his faithful love endures
>>>> forever."
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:07 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's the way you really have to approach it. Yes, there is the
>>>>> temptation and, perhaps, it's necessary to have Windows reference points
>>>>> to keep things straight in your mind. However, if you keep thinking in
>>>>> Windows terms and like you are using a Windows screen reader, I can tell
>>>>> you that your progress will be slow and quite frustrating. You have to
>>>>> cut the cord and think Mac and VoiceOver.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>
>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really. I caught on to the mac in about 10 minutes and tha'ts why. I
>>>>>> through windows out the window so to speak.. I"m not sayign I learned
>>>>>> everythign in 1 day, but I grasped the consept in about 10 minutes and
>>>>>> spent the next day takign notes in class and learning the mac as a brand
>>>>>> new OS forgetting the fact that I ever learned windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care all.
>>>>>> On Nov 28, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd have to agree here with Sarah's comments. the mac is very similar
>>>>>>> to windows, but it's just different enough to really screw you if not
>>>>>>> careful. It's kind a like the difference in Spanish vs. Portuguese.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" <marrie12@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 6:14 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: What is the MacOS equivalent...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah it would be. the doc in windows is just like the doc on the mac,
>>>>>>> But I would quit comparing mac to windows starting now and learn the
>>>>>>> terminology and use it. Don't go looking for equivilents as they are
>>>>>>> not going to be easy to spot half the time.
>>>>>>> On Nov 28, 2011, at 4:59 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that'd be the doc right? I don't see a taskbar on the mac.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh yeah. oops? forgot about that. I don't much pay attention to that.
>>>>>>>> thanks for the tip I forgot lol!
>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Tracy Duffy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you go across the task bar, it will tell you when an ap is running
>>>>>>>>> and when it is not. For example, it will say mail running or if it
>>>>>>>>> just says mail it is not running at the moment and you'll need to
>>>>>>>>> open it if you want to work within that program. Or, if an ap is
>>>>>>>>> running and you don't want it to be, you'll know to close it out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> 2 Chronicles 20, 21B: "Give thanks to God, his faithful love endures
>>>>>>>>> forever."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's the doc. and I dunno if there is a way to speak the dots.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully someone can help there.
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2011, at 10:25 PM, JULIO PEREZ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To the Windows Task Manager and/or Taskbar? That is, the place
>>>>>>>>>>> where open
>>>>>>>>>>> files are listed so that one can close or switch to them. The
>>>>>>>>>>> materials I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> reading say that open files are marked with a "bright dot" next to
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> icons but VO does not describe such dots. I only heard a single
>>>>>>>>>>> such mention
>>>>>>>>>>> after waking up the system. It spoke the name of the running
>>>>>>>>>>> application. Is
>>>>>>>>>>> there a way to make that happen as desired?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>> with his
>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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