[lit-ideas] Re: Wittgenstein's Punch Line

  • From: "Walter C. Okshevsky" <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:01:57 -0330

Dear Omar,

You really shouldn't talk like that. People may get the wrong impression.  They
may mistake you for Hegel and wouldn't that be a fine how do you do. 

Cheers, Walter


Quoting Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>:

> There must be transcendental jokes. Our self-constructing reason postulates
> this idea as an priori condition of its self-regulation. As its merely formal
> antithesis, the pragmatic reason claims its own ground of understanding in
> the antinomies of intentionality. 
> 
> Now we go to linguistic philosophy: "Hey Tom ! Or was it John ! "Hey gurl ! I
> think I saw you somewhere, maybe it was another gurl ? Anyhow if I say that I
> saw you I saw you, okay ? "
> 
> I guess it's O.K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, February 21, 2014 9:38 PM, Walter C. Okshevsky <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
> wrote:
>  
> Y'know , as Jack Benny put it well, if you have to *explain* the joke ...
> 
> Cheers, Walter
> 
> 
> Quoting Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx:
> 
> > McEvoy amusingly rephrases the conversation as being:
> > 
> > Russell: Are  you tormented by your logic or your sins.
> > Witters: Both.
> >  
> > McEvoy comments:
> >  
> > "The Russell story about whether W was tormented in thought by "logic" or 
> 
> > his "sins" - "Both" replied W - might easily be thought that of a
> humourless
> > 
> >  person..."
> >  
> > For the record, as quoted by C. B .:
> > 
> > In a message dated 2/13/2014 7:54:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> > cblists@xxxxxxxx writes:
> > 
> > 
> > "Once I [Russell] said to him [Witters]: 'Are you thinking about  logic,
> or 
> > about your sins?' 'Both', he replied."
> >  
> > In propositional logic:
> >  
> >  
> > ψw(p, q)
> >  
> > where "p" is logic
> >  
> > and "q" is 'my sins'.
> >  
> > There may be an implicature that logic IS a sin. As the Queen reminds to  
> > Alice:
> >  
> > "I can't believe that!" said Alice.
> > "Can't you?" the Queen said in  a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long 
> > breath, and shut your  eyes."
> > Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't  believe 
> > impossible things."
> > "I daresay you haven't had much practice,"  said the Queen. "When I was 
> > your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day.  Why, sometimes I've
> > believed 
> > as many as six impossible things before  breakfast."
> >  
> > i.e. the Queen believes.
> >  
> > She believes that p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, and p6
> >  
> > -- the fact that each proposition is impossible should concern Witters -- 
> 
> > NOT the Queen.
> >  
> > Now, it may be argued that thinking is mono-propositional. Suppose I
> think  
> > that the cat is black and that the cat is on the mat. This may be 
> > summarised as  me thinking that the black cat is on the mat.
> >  
> > If I think that London is the capital of the United Kingdom and that  
> > Picasso is a great painter, a cognitive psychologist may wonder if these  
> > thoughts are thought IN SUCCESSION.
> > 
> > Back to Russell:
> >  
> > Russell: Are you thinking about logic, or about your sins?
> >  
> > Witters: Both.
> >  
> > Russell is assuming a monopropositional account of thinking. 
> >  
> > Are you thinking p OR q?
> >  
> > Answer: I'm thinking p AND q.
> >  
> > The problem is that 'my sins' and 'logic' do not really allow for a  
> > propositional format -- in terms of 'that'-clause.
> >  
> > Witters was thinking that he was a sinful person and that logic is  
> > important.
> >  
> > These two thoughts look indeed so disparate that Witters's curt reply, as 
> 
> > McEvoy suggests, cannot but be understood as a 'punch line' (keyword:  
> > punchiness).
> >  
> > Or not.
> >  
> > Cheers
> >  
> > Speranza
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