[lit-ideas] Re: Sustained Incongruencies
- From: Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:50:36 -0700
>that book did influence me
ck: In the spirit of debasing self-disclosure and truthfulness vs.
truthiness, I haven't read KH in book form for at least a decade, and I'm
not sure I ever read this one. Journal articles referring to KH, yes. For
the past few years I've been reading Rogers, rehashed and reformulated.
Since psychology is going "optimistic," though, I plan to join that
philanthropic do-badder interviewed on NPR yesterday--the one who is staging
rewritten, optimistic versions of operas, especially their endings. (Of _La
Boheme_: "They didn't have antidepressants back then.")
Like Melina Mercouri's happy hooker in "Never On Sunday," who remembered all
endings of Greek tragedies as "everybody goes to the beach," the idea of
"neurosis" makes me smile wistfully. Ah, for the leather couch...
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Kirschenbaum" <carolkir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sustained Incongruencies
>
>> Are you advocating for the Karen Horney reading in
>> _Neurosis and Human Growth_ that the tension between the real self and
>> the ideal self drives neurosis?
>
> ck: I was being simplistic in a dogmatic tone. Thank you for complicating.
>
> I suppose that book did influence me, but I was referring to a more
> expanded views that encompasses basic hypocrisy. Advocating, as you put
> it, for reducing the burden of guises (personae) in an individual's life.
> In my life, for instance.
>
>> Surely that's not the same as the ability to hold contradictory views in
>> mind and suspend judgment, the so-called "negative capability"?
>
> ck: Surely that is not the same. Right. Intellectual capability is not the
> same as, say, the emotional dissonance that comes from believing sets of
> contradictory ideas. The Krugman column you maligned was his
> acknowledgement of personal discomfort at holding contradictory views. The
> column was an initial attempt at resolving that incongruency (one that a
> slew of his readers share) by acknowledging it out loud. This is an
> important function of columnists.
>
> But back to this not being about you. You inhabit various roles, in the
> sense of adopting points of view for the purpose of argument, on this
> list. I don't take that to mean that you necessarily agree with what you
> espouse.
> In Horney's construct, such intellectual and emotional play helps nurture
> the creation of an authentic self (what an old, comforting notion!). Adopt
> a position, try it on in a three-sided mirror, and rent it for a special
> occasion.
>
> Problems tend to amass when the belief systems cohabit and contradict, as
> in your example of the ideal vs. real self. Confronting that obvious
> discrepancy would cause disequilibrium, to a degree. Depends on the
> person's defenses, and the weight of that discrepancy (incongruity) to a
> person's total self-concept.
>
> But lookie here--look at the range of small and huge lies we buy into,
> politically, ethically, etc. "I am a person who does not relish lying, and
> I do so only when telling the truth would hurt a loved one's feelings."
> Okay, got it. This person's belief system allows for lying, under some
> circumstances. Would it be any surprise, then, if this individual gives
> Bush slack to lie time and again? No. The rationale might be that Bush is
> protecting us, his beloveds, by lying. Necessary lies. Lying, then,
> wouldn't diminish the honor in Bush's behavior or character, in this
> individual's eyes. Simple. Not so simple, though, if our hero approves of
> Bush's lying for a "higher purpose," but also believes that this democracy
> must be "transparent," with limited power to the executive branch--no
> carte blanche on lying for the head of state.
>
> Resolved for the individual through debate, or by rearranging priorities.
> If not, you get the sad, ludicrous, and neurotic (ah, love that old term!)
> situation of a guy screaming, "I hate people screaming!"
>
> Carol
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> Rather the
>> incongruence in neurosis have to do with self concept and forms of
>> desire. (E.g., "I am a great painter who will start painting as soon as I
>> get time off from my Wal-Mart clerk job.")
>>
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>
>
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