The way you say it, or the way I'm hearing it, makes Liberal Democracy, especially coupled with Marxist Liberal Democracy, sound pejorative. I am NOT a Marxist, but I think it's safe to say that Marxism, like Christianity, has never been tried. The Soviet Union had this weird Stalinist horror thing whatever it was. Judy can correct me, but I think England today has a form of "Marxism" (even possibly including ownership of the means of production in the form of nationalized industries). Unbridled capitalism is what England and the U.S. had in the 19th century. It was pretty ugly. Why anyone would want that back is beyond me. Leave it to the Chinese to take capitalism and harness it to serve totalitarianism, fascism by another name. Fascism, communism, I never really saw the difference. Ironically, pharma writing their own legislation smacks of fascism. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 2/3/2006 11:02:12 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Iran (2), First Front You are a tough nut, Irene. Liberal Democracy is our form of government. It is the term used by social scientists. It includes the U.S. and every Western nation. It includes Japan and several eastern nations. It is a technical term to be applied to the Western form of free economies and personal freedoms. What we have been encountering to some extent here on Lit-ideas are nuances within Liberal Democracy, from the Welfare State on the Left to the Conservatives on the Right One can cross over the line into a non-Liberal-Democracy and advocate fascism (which isn't happening here) or Communism which is the strict form of Marxism which also isn?t happening here. The Communists did exert influence in this country and those who remain in this Liberal Democracy but espouse or lean toward the anti-American views of the Communist propagandists are called Leftists. The Soviet Union has gone belly up and destroyed their compass but they continue the battle against evil America just the same. Think of Ward Churchill and Noam Chomsky. Lawrence