Robert Paul's response to Walter's post made me think of how much energy goes into the teaching of table manners. In fact, now that I think of it, the teaching of "good manners" exacts an enormous amount of a parent's time and energy -- maybe more than any other child-rearing activity. If children were told not to kill people as often as they're told to say "Please" and "Thank you", there'd probably be no wars. But of all the manners, it's table manners that are apparently the most important. I was told not to pick my nose 4,380 times as a kid, but I was told to keep my elbows off the table 15,330 times. Everyday, three times a day, it was the same: "Sit up straight, take your elbows off the table, don't start eating until we've said Grace, you can't leave the table until you've been excused, you won't be excused until you've eaten your dinner, use your fork, don't play with you food, don't kick your brother under the table!" As RP points out, no reasons are ever given for these manners. But at a minimum disapproving stares were fast forthcoming at every transgression. Manners are morality to a kid. But they cannot be reasoned or intuited. I first realized this when I was teaching one of my kids some table manners. He was eating soup and was dipping and lifting his spoon from the middle of the bowl. "No, no," I corrected him and modeled the proper method of eating soup, "you should place the spoon into the bowl at the edge closest to you and lift it out at the farthest edge." "What?" his mother exclaimed, "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard." Poor woman. She was raised in an upper-middle class manners-deprived environment, I thought I had grown accustomed to the gaps in her suburban education, but I was truly shocked that she didn't know this essential Postian precept. "It stands to reason," I said all smugly, "As a ship goes out to sea, I push the spoon away from me." "Oh, really?" my wife said. "I suppose your mother taught you that." "Indeed she did. And it's stayed with me all these years -- it's just common sense," "No doubt you think so," she said. "It makes as much sense as saying 'as the ship comes in from sea, I pull the spoon toward me." I would have ranted and raved, but I felt sorry for our son who was having to pay the price of a mixed marriage. Mike Geary being strange in Memphis