[lit-ideas] Re: A Connoisseur's Guide to the Noumenon

  • From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 00:36:51 +0200

One could also claim, with the ordinary language philosophers, that one has
privileged insight into the meaning of words, statements, utterances and
what not.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Redacted sender Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx for
DMARC <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In a message dated 9/9/2014 12:46:28  P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> so what?
> Well, the entry in Liddell/Scott for Greek for 'think' ends:
> IV. of words, bear a certain sense, mean, “πυθοίμεθ᾽ ἂν τὸν
> χρησμὸν ὅ  τι νοεῖ”
> Ar.Pl.55, cf. Nu.1186, Pl.Cra.407e; [εἰ] τοῦτο . . νοεῖ αὐτῷ if this
> means  for him that . . , Id.R.335e; also “ἐπιδεῖξαι ἐθέλω τὸ νυνί
>  μοι συμβεβηκὸς τί  ποτε νοεῖ” Id.Ap.40a; τὸ νοούμενον the
> sense, meaning, Phld.Po.Herc.991.4,  al.—Not in Th. or Oratt.
> -- i.e. the idea is that the noumenon is the _sense_ that Frege worshipped
> and Grice avoided ("do not multiply senses beyond necessity").
> Perhaps the clearest statement is by Yost:
> "To speak of something without reference to empiricism
> ... is to claim
> direct knowledge of a noumen[on], which is type of faith or imaginative
> leap."
> ----
> One may disagree.
> If 'noumenon' ultimately derives from THINK, we need a thinker. It's true
> that only empiricists claim that there's nothing in the intellect (in the
> thought) that was not before in the senses -- but most philosophers must
> postulate some connection between thinking processes and, shall we say,
> _sensing_ stuff.
> I'm not sure I buy the Greek idea that 'noumenon' is the _meaning_. For
> one, it's _utterers_ who mean, never or hardly ever words. A word only
> acquires  meaning by its use within a population of speakers that share a
> form of
> life (as  someone said).
> Oddly, Rodin's statue, The Thinker, is the great producer of noumena.
> Cheers,
> Speranza
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