Hi Bert,
Sorry for confusing. I didn't include the original En-Ueb-math.ctb file
because I wanted to make a saperate copy in order to easily examine the
code for handling Vietnamese math by adding an extra file with the "vi"
prefix as vi-ueb-math.ctb. In that file, I dodn't add my credit for it,
it's credited by the American Printing House.
And in my vi-puncsdef.uti, I also wrote down below codes are borrowed
from UEB grade 1 table. Please help me to update the credits for all
those files.
To prepare for the next release, I think we can remove the
vi-ueb-math.ctb and just simply include the "en-ueb-math.ctb"
The people helping me test the translation result are just my friends
and they help me voluntarily as individuals. I just want to add the name
of their organization where they are working at. Please let me know if
you need further info about these people.
Regards,
Phuc
On 2/22/2019 4:27 PM, Bert Frees wrote:
Thanks,
2. That doesn't really answer my question. Why wasn't it possible to include the UEB table? If it is just for experimentation, and there are no actual requirements, then why is it important to have exactly the table you have right now?
3. Yes, sure, I can help you with the credits, but if you decide to keep it like this I really need some tests for these parts. I want to understand why it isn't possible to include the UEB table, or a part of it, and possibly override some of it with Vietnamese characters.
4. But what is the relation with the mentioned institutions?
Op vr 22 feb. 2019 om 08:33 schreef Dang Hoai Phuc <danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi Bert,
Thanks for your message. Below are my answers for your
questions/remarks:
1. The The reference link to the Vietnamese Braille code/rules can
be checked at:
http://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/rules-and-guidelines-vietnamese-braille
I can make it all in one file and send to you so you can help put
on any possible space.
2. For the UEB-math, I tried to explore different options if it's
the best way to utilize existing UEB=math table or we should
develop our own one for our Braille translation software. By the
end, we create a new one for the Ascii math and don't use the
UEB-math table with our software anymore. I just include it in the
table for users to experiment if possible. As I don't have much
time to test with it deeply.
3. Yes, I did copy some parts from other UEB and make some
adjustment to correct with Vietnamese characters. Sorry for
forgetting to put the info of such parts. Can you please help me
list the credits for that?
4. Fyi, the persons from Myanmar and Cambodia, they helped me in
checking the Braille outputs to see if the translation results are
correct in different kinds of cases.
Many thanks and please let me know if you have further
requests/questions.
Phuc
On 2/18/2019 9:09 PM, Bert Frees wrote:
Hi Phuc,
The link you provided before does not work anymore:
http://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/accessible-formats/rules-and-guidelines-vietnamese-braille
<http://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/accessible-formats/rules-and-guidelines-vietnamese-braille>.
Do you have an alternative link? Or better, do you have a
document that we could put on our own space?
I also have a few more remarks after looking more closely at your PR.
- Is it really necessary to copy the ueb-math table? Wouldn't it
be better to include the existing one? If it is really important
that the behavior of the table is stable, a better solution is to
create regression tests.
- It looks like you also copied parts of other UEB tables without
mentioning anything about it in your table, and you even gave
yourself copyright to it. You shouldn't do that. Again, I would
suggest to either include an original UEB table, or create
regression tests.
- You mention in your tables that you got help from Benedict and
Pyae Phyopaing for Myanmar, and Khemara Ly for Khmer. In your
previous email you also mention Myanmar Assistive Tech Research &
Dev Center and the Myanmar Association of the Blind, and the
Krausao-mei school in Cambodia. How are these people related?
As a general remark, I strongly encourage you to write tests for
your tables because it has nothing but benefits.
<http://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/accessible-formats/rules-and-guidelines-vietnamese-braille>
Op ma 7 jan. 2019 om 22:36 schreef Bert Frees
<bertfrees@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:bertfrees@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Ok thanks.
Op ma 7 jan. 2019 om 18:11 schreef Dang Hoai Phuc
<danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Hi Bert,
Thanks for your help pulling the tables to LibLouis.
Fyi, the Vi-south.ctb table is actually the full
contracted Vietnamese. As you might know, we had two
political systems before 1975 and we have two different
contracted Braille versions. The uncontracted version is
used same for the whole country.
The vi-vn-g1 and vi-vn-g2 are officially used by the
government. However, the South one is still used by many
visually impaired people based in the South so I decided
that it should be given as I believe they have right to
choose to read with any Braille codes that they want. For
the official document of Vietnamese Braille codes, I have
published on our website at:
http://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/accessible-formats/rules-and-guidelines-vietnamese-braille
For the Braille tables for Myanmar and Khmer languages, I
got the Braille signs from the colleagues: Myanmar
(Myanmar Assistive Tech Research & Dev Center and the
Myanmar Association of the Blind) and the Khmer from the
Krausao-mei school in Cambodia.
Please let me know for any further info.
Best,
Phuc
On 1/7/2019 10:47 PM, Bert Frees wrote:
Hello Phuc,
Thanks! That sounds great. I have made a pull request
from your files:
https://github.com/liblouis/liblouis/pull/683. I have
also added some observations. Please have a look.
I have some questions regarding the vi-south-g2.ctb
table. Is this a variant of the other Vietnamese braille
system, or should it be considered a completely
different system? Is the difference explained by a
difference between the dialects, or is it purely
historical and could both regions use the same braille
system? Can the regions where this system is used be
pinpointed exactly? Is it fully contracted braille or
should it be called partially contracted, in accordance
with vi-vn-g2.ctb?
Some official documentation would help. I am looking for
the best way for a computer to distinguish the braille
systems. If the regions where they are used can be
identified exactly, we can use that. Otherwise we need
to give the systems (or variants) distinct names.
Op vr 14 dec. 2018 om 13:15 schreef Dang Hoai Phuc
<danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:danghoaiphuc@xxxxxxxxx>>:
Dear Bert, Christian and all Liblouis Developers,
I would like to contribute new translation tables
for Burmese, Khmer and
Vietnamese languages which I have created recently.
Please give me a
hand to check and commit to the Github. The link to
download tables:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/972hy2yypjgxx6o/Braille%20Tables.zip?dl=0
Fyi, it contains the following tables:
For Khmer (Cambodia): kh-g1.ctb (uncontracted Braille)
Burmese for both uncontracted and contracted:
mm-g1.ctb and mm-g2.ctb
Vietnamese for uncontracted, partial contracted,
full contracted and
South contracted version (used by many adults in the
Southern part of
Vietnam): vi-vn-g1.ctb, vi-vn-g2.ctb, vi-vn-g3.ctb
and vi-south-g2.ctb
So the total is 7 new tables. I haven't checked much
with backward
translation so your help should be highly appreciated.
With best regards,
Phuc
