[LRflex] Re: R-10, M and X camera Info (long)

From: Gérard DE BOTTON <g.debotton@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:13:42 +0200 (CEST)
Hi David
As an enthusiast of the R-Line, I am of course very pleased and excited to read 
the good news you are kind enough to share with us. Couldn't you post these 
news on the Leica user forum? I am sure it will arouse mountains of 
speculations, but at least it will bring some animation in the rather dull 
atmosphere for which Leica's silence is partly responsible...
Thanks
Dr Gérard de Botton





> Message du 18/10/07 03:43
> De : "David Young" 
> A : leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Copie à : 
> Objet : [LRflex] R-10, M and X camera Info (long)
> 
> Good Evening all:
> 
> As most of you know, Rose and I attended the LHSA's annual convention, this 
> past weekend. There Herr Andreas Kaufmann, owner of Leica, spoke of their 
> plans for the next generation R camera.
> 
> He played his cards very close to his chest, and was very coy about his 
> answers.  Other than confirming that a new 'R' camera would be introduced at 
> Photokina, he gave very little information, as one might expect.
> 
> He said that the "final form" of the camera was presented to the Board, for 
> production approval, and that approval was given within the last week.  Thus, 
> the design is set.  He showed not the camera, but only a photo of the box in 
> which it was carried into the board room!
> 
> Coyly, he asked: "What might the model name be?  I cannot say, but if you can 
> count to 10, you will probably have a good idea! What will be the features of 
> this new camera?  Think of a wish list...  auto-focus? A full frame sensor?  
> A sensor perhaps larger than full frame?"
> 
> As many of you know, I, along with Howard Cummer and three others, had the 
> pleasure of meeting with Steven Lee, Stephan Daniels and Maike Harberts, for 
> three hours at the '06 Photokina - to discuss the future of the 'R' series.  
> I now feel we can now discuss, publicly, the idea of a "larger than full 
> frame sensor", now that Hr. Kaufmann, has said it publicly.  Until now, I 
> have been prevented from mentioning such things, as it would be a violation 
> of the NDA, we signed.  My lips will remain sealed about all other items 
> discussed at that meeting, until such time as they are publicly addressed by 
> Leica officials. However, if Hr. Kaufmann has raised them, then I feel they 
> are now "fair game".
> 
> This last bit, about a "larger than full frame" sensor, was discussed at that 
> 2006 meeting. At that time, I wondered if it was an indication of their 
> thoughts, or if it was simply (as Agatha Christie's Piorot would say) "A blue 
> herring", to throw us and, more importantly, Leica's competitors, off track.  
> One audience member asked if a larger sensor would require a larger mount - 
> and if this was to happen, would current 'R' glass be able to be used.  Hr. 
> Kaufmann replied: "A solution is in the pipeline."
> 
> This "larger than full frame" (24x36mm) sensor idea has me bothered a bit. 
> 
> If it is much more than, say 15% bigger, it would undoubtedly require a body 
> larger than the R8, something nearly everyone who completed last fall's 
> survey indicated they did not wish.
> 
> That being said, if it is, say, 15% larger (no size was given -  15% is my 
> guess), it would have the advantage of either (a) more pixels - like Canon, 
> (b) larger pixels - like Nikon or (c) a bit of both.  It would also require a 
> new mount, although we were promised, a year ago, that any mount change would 
> permit existing R lenses to be used, in aperture priority mode, at the very 
> least.  A new mount might still be needed, even if the sensor is "merely" 
> full frame, in order to accommodate Auto-Focus.  
> 
> If the sensor is larger than full frame, a new series of lenses would be 
> required to take advantage of that, for the image circle of the existing 
> glass would likely not perform to it's max over a larger area, though that 
> might differ, lens to lens.  Assuming the traditional 2:3 aspect ratio is 
> preserved, an adapter could be rigged to turn off the outer, 15% (or whatever 
> it really is) when existing R glass was used. This, however, would reduce the 
> number of pixels recorded.   Thus, you would have a lower resolution, full 
> frame image, with existing glass and a larger, higher resolution image  with 
> the new lenses.  A simple line on the VF screens, as was used on the DMR, 
> would suffice.  Add in AF, and you have powerful reasons for buyers to step 
> up to the new glass.... something Leica needs, as there is more money in 
> lenses than in bodies. 
> 
> Of course, if the sensor were made 36mm square, the image circle of existing 
> glass would be able to handle that, without problem. Photos could, of course, 
> still be cropped to the traditional 24x36mm.  Please note: this last bit, 
> about a square sensor, is simply my speculation.
> 
> However, a larger sensor would require a larger mirror, which would make it 
> almost impossible to swing the mirror up, while still using existing "R" 
> glass.  This problem is made even more significant by the need to make the 
> registration (the distance from lens flange to sensor/film plane) a few 
> millimeters shallower than on previous R cameras, in order to allow for an 
> adapter, so existing 'R' glass can be fitted, while still focusing to 
> infinity.  Should the sensor be made square, this would be virtually 
> impossible, for the mirror would have to be much larger!
> 
> No matter how they do it, if the sensor is to be "larger than full frame", it 
> will take some really creative engineering to preserve the use of 'R' glass.  
> Thus, I still think this is a "blue herring".  However, I have been known to 
> be wrong, before!
> 
> No mention was made as to number of pixels or other specifications.  However, 
> Hr. Kaufmann did confirm that Leica have twenty-four (count 'em ...24!) new 
> lenses in development!  If we assume that 6 new "M" lenses per year is 
> overkill, that still leaves 18 new lenses for the "R" line.  Whether they are 
> required for AF, or for a larger sensor, or both, only time will tell.  But 
> there is no doubt, that an entire new fleet of "R" glass is on the horizon.  
> Hr. Kaufmann also indicated that Leica are moving fast towards a policy of 
> having stock available for shipment almost as soon as products are officially 
> announced.  If this is realized, then we should see a new "R' camera and an 
> entire line of new lenses, by the end of next year.
> 
> When asked if the new lenses would be AF, Hr. Kaufmann simply replied "Think 
> about your wish list."
> 
> When asked if the new lenses would be metal, as now, or employ some 
> polycarbonate or other "space age" materials, he simply said "I am sorry, but 
> I am not allowed to answer that question."
> 
> Hr. Kaufmann also confirmed that there will be a new "M" camera introduced at 
> the '08 Photokina and implied that it would have the Infra-red filter 
> built-in. He gave no other details.
> 
> He also indicated that "Camera X" would be introduced.  It is not known by 
> that name, but he said that this was how he would refer to it at this time. 
> He gave no more information, but a chart of the line showed it as being near 
> the Digilux 3 - perhaps a possible replacement.  This makes me wonder if 
> Leica plan to skip the latest incarnation of the Panasonic DSLR and have 
> something else by fall!  Time will tell.
> 
> Whatever the new cameras are to be, Leica have just over 11 months to tool 
> and produce.  They are going to be busy beavers!
> 
> Let the speculation begin!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
---

> 
David Young,       
Logan Lake, CANADA 

> 
Wildlife Photographs: http://www.telyt.com/ 
Personal Web-pages: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
Stock Photography at: http://tinyurl.com/2amll4
[LRflex] Re: R-10, M and X camera Info (long)

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