[IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@xxxxxx>
- To: <irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:44:18 +0100
Well, while I sympathise with the point of view exhoed below, I find myself
more in agreement with the points expressed by Darragh, Sabrina, Ed, et al.
The real issue is about whether Mrs. Quinn's charity shops should continue to
use the word 'handicapped' when referring to us in general, not whether each of
us likes the word handicapped to be included where describing us blind and
vision-impaired. I hope MQCS does change the wording, either on their own
volition or on insttruction from NCBI, but I won't 'lose the head' if they
don't.
People there do one of two things: they give money by buying something from
the shop, or they don't. that's their legitimate choice. What they believe is
also their legitimate choice. People's attitudes don't change long-term
overnight. (what you tend to get at best is a short-term increase in
awareness; then most people who've witnessed the event or read/hear the story
revert to their old and 'sinful' ways again.) There are many people whose
minds are closed, or who can't be dissuaded from feeling 'sorry for us', which
is regrettable, of course. We are living in a very unequal society; and that's
reflected in societal attitudes towards minoroties, including us. It is also
reflected in people's private attitudes - even, I daresay, in some of our own
attitudes, even towards ourselves and towards people with other disabilities
and towards other minorities. It's not a 'big step backwards'. It's a small
step backwards. Unfortunately, most people are (by choice) indifferent to the
needs of disadvantaged groups; and we will remain a disadvantaged group for at
least 'some considerable time'.
As a first line of approach in a 'campaign for change', I would simply put it
that the word 'handicapped' is largely an outmoded expression when it is used
to apply to people with disabilities such as ourselves, and ought to be
dropped; or a time frame should be set for changes to the wording to be put in
place.
----- Original Message -----
From: noreenmeagher
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Hi all,
Have to say I agree totally with these sentiments and very well put Rosaleen.
Regards,
Noreen M.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rosaleen Dempsey
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Hi all
The word "handicapped" comes from the phrase "cap in hand", to beg. It was
of its time but is now outdated. Plenty of words go out of usage. Personally, I
would like to see this one join them.
I don't agree that talking about language and disability is petty for this
reason: Society uses language to put labels on people. We all do it to make
sense of the world. However, if a label is negative it allows for stereotyping.
The word "handicapped" was widely used in the medical profession and was used
to describe the person's disability. The medical model of disability puts the
problems of access etc solely in the court of the person with a disability.
This gives society no responsibility to change and become more disability
friendly.
While I agree with you, Darragh, that there are other wider issues, I don't
think we should underestimete the power of words and language. It can inspire
hatred, fear and ignorance. It can dehumanise people and turn them into objects
of pity or hatred rather than human beings deserving of respect. Think of the
word "spastic" which was used for people with physical disabilities such as
cerebral palsy. It had to be changed because the word was widely being used as
an insult.
Regards,
Rosaleen
Darragh.OHeiligh@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
ItÃââs only distasteful because you as being someone with a
disability expect that the use of the word will have negative implications on
the perception of others toward people who are blind. You ask if I would have a
problem with being called Handicapped. Well, it would solely depend on the
context in which the word was used. I don't find the word to be derogatory
because in the context of a *sensory* disability it means something completely
different than when used to describe someone with a mental disability.
I fear you are still not understanding the point I have repeatedly made.
There are much more important issues to address than one insignificant word.
You said in your first email that you were afraid of the difference in
perception this word would make. I have debated that the majority of people in
society will not pay much attention to the use of the word handicapped and in
fact drawing attention to its use is counter productive and may be viewed by
some as a petty and wasteful quibble.
If you take a quick look on Google you'll find that the term sensory
handicap is used repeatedly. I am unqualified to say if it's legally inaccurate
but again, who cares!
I'll finish by echoing Sabrina's earlier sentiments: Life is too short!
Have fun!
Darragh Ãâ HÃÂiligh - Technical lead
Stream EMEA
Direct Dial: +353 14400793
Ext: 2293
Stream Practice 8 - "Be responsible for enhancing job knowledge. Pursue
professional growth and foster a learning environment".
"Kealy, Nicky" <Nicky.Kealy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
10/07/2006 02:21 PM Please respond to
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Subject [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Darragh, have you a physical disability? A visual impairment is
considered a sensory disability but thank you for that explanation. My
question to you as I have been asking and you or Edd or Sabrina won't answer it
is are you handicapped and would you allow someone to call you handicapped? It
is a distasteful word that in this day and age there is no excuse for using so
get rid of it. Have we no response from NCBI? I am waiting to get the
opportunity to talk to the guy that runs the shops to see what he will say to
me. If anyone else would like to talk to him that feels the same as me and I
am glad that I have received private responses from people to indicate that
people do agree with me you should just take the time to call the office and
ask for Mr. Martin Kenny.
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Harper
Sent: 10 July 2006 14:04
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Thanks Darra for this message and the previous, with which I find myself
in complete agreement. If prejudice and stereotyping are to be allowed to get
too much into one's feelings it can act as an impairment to calm thinking and
successful action too.
Try being English, and a goat farmer.
There is a very good song which includes the line: Your hair maybe black
or your hair maybe white, there'll always be somebody shocked at the sight.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Darragh.OHeiligh@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 10 July 2006 13:31
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Well, after reading a bit about this word it seems that on its own the
word handicapped can encompass both physical and mental disabilities. So, to
answer your question, yes. Visually impaired are physically handicapped. But,
you haven't addressed the points that I made in my previous message: Do you
really care if a very small minority in society do not know the difference
between a physical and a mental disability?
Definitions and other sources of information:
Handicapped is an adjective used to refer to a person or animal who is
partially disabled or unable to use a limb or limbs. The use of this term is
sometimes considered offensive, though it is preferable to the derogatory
term "cripple" or "retard", which is an insult most disabled people find thrown
at them at some point in their lives.
Refers to the degree of functional limitation resulting from impairment.
The existence of a handicap depends on the extent to which impairment impedes
a person's function.
A person who has a congenital or acquired mental or physical defect that
interferes with normal functioning of the body, or the ability to be self
sufficient
in modern society.
A person having a physical or mental impairment, expected to be of long
or indefinite duration, that substantially limits one (1) or more of such
person's
major life activities so that person is unable to live independently, or
a record of having such impairment or being regarded as having such impairment.
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0090/S.0090.197811080008.html
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0313/D.0313.197903290008.html
Darragh Ãâ HÃÂiligh - Technical lead
Stream EMEA
Direct Dial: +353 14400793
Ext: 2293
Stream Practice 8 - "Be responsible for enhancing job knowledge. Pursue
professional growth and foster a learning environment".
"Kealy, Nicky" <Nicky.Kealy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
10/07/2006 01:15 PM
Please respond to
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Subject [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
I am sorry but I haven't attacked anyone. I have expressed annoyance of
what was written and I am entitled to do that so don't take this too far as
regards that kind of thing.
Its a word that doesn't have to be used and people are using it in my
name and in your name as we are blind and the charity shops in question are run
by the national council for the blind who are the charity or agency that
represent blind people so the views of blind people need to be taken into
account here. Now, are you going to answer my question? Are you handicapped?
Itas a simple yes or no question.
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Darragh.OHeiligh@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 10 July 2006 13:11
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Nicky, I think the point Sabrina was making is that it really doesn't
matter at the end of the day. Its only one word. Do you really think peoples
perceptions will change over such a minor detail?
I suppose it comes down to two things.
1. What do the majority of people associate with the word handicapped?
Would you concede that the meaning you take from that word may be different to
that held by people who can see because you feel that used in the wrong context
it could directly impact you?
And 2. Does it really matter what the perceptions of others are just
because we canÃâât see? If someone is going to associate a particular
perception with a blind
Person just because they happen to be blind without taking the time to
get to know them then their so narrow minded that using handicapped or not
using it
Makes absolutely no difference.
Basically, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point that
handicapped is an inaccurate word to use in the context of visually impaired.
What I think
I'm saying is that it doesn't particularly bother me what word they use.
It is, after all only one word. In certain mediums it can be more destructive
than others but it doesn't warrant such an outcry of outrage as you've
demonstrated in your previous messages. It furthermore doesn't in any way
necessitate the attack on another list member.
I admire your determination to right this alleged wrong but remember who
your fighting against.
Darragh Ãâ HÃÂiligh - Technical lead
Stream EMEA
Direct Dial: +353 14400793
Ext: 2293
Stream Practice 8 - "Be responsible for enhancing job knowledge. Pursue
professional growth and foster a learning environment".
"Kealy, Nicky" <Nicky.Kealy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
10/07/2006 12:47 PM
Please respond to
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Subject [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Are you actually serious? Is this really just one big joke to you? You
have been called worse? Is that acceptable then? Life is too short you
say? Well, if you are going to have that attitude then good luck to
you. I personally don't want to be called anything except by ;my proper
name and I don't want a lable cause I have a visual problem or cause I
am just blind and I don't have a problem with the word blind. God,
think of what you write and how mature or immature it sounds. So many
people are striving to have people treated in a correct manner and
promote proper equality for all and then we see messages and comments
like this? Please, you have a right to an opinion and I am all for that
but think about what you are saying and how much sense you are making.
Sorry now if that is a bit harsh but I make no appolagies for it.
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sabrina
McKiernan
Sent: 10 July 2006 12:20
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
doesn't worry me either! sure I've been called worse! ahahaha.. ah
life's to short!
have fun,
Sabrina
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ed Harper
Sent: 10 July 2006 10:14
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Hi nicky, As I said earlier I would hate to stop anyone campaigning
for
anything they believed in, and I don't mind not being called
handicapped, but I must admit it doesn't particularly worry me.
On the otherhand if we are talking about an ideal world and if I had the
time, I would campaign to remove services for those people needing them,
which when you think about it includes all the "disabled" the old the
pregnant the young the sick etc etc etc, from the realm of any kind of
charities at all. In my ideal world we would have more control over
the
political/economic functions of society and everyone would be in a
position to rely on society to provide, as of right, the assistance they
need from time to time, or all the time. It is a historical quirk that
the "blind" have been the object of charity in many countries, probably
because we were relatively obvious and at one time greatly feared.
Good luck with the campaign.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kealy, Nicky
Sent: 10 July 2006 09:52
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Good morning people, I am glad to see that I have generated a nice
discussion on this subject although its worrying to me that one or two
of you will be willing to accept this in my view very negative word to
be used in adds which are being used to collect money for a charity
representing visually impaired people.
I am going to be harsh here but please don't right such rubbish telling
me that they can right what they want cause it's a charity. They can
not. They are doing all of this to raise money for to provide services
for blind people and indeed vision impaired people also. The public
will be picking up messages from these adds so you do have to be careful
as to how you put them out. Can I ask any of you people that think the
word handicapped is acceptable in some forms are you handicapped? Can
you honestly tell me that you would like someone referring to you as
being handicapped? Is you wouldn't then don't tell me that it is
acceptable for this leaflet to remain in circulation. I am not finished
on this matter yet and am still campaigning for its removal.
Regards, Nicky.
-----Original Message-----
>From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
martin_osullivan@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 07 July 2006 11:20
To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
Hi
I think that we have to move away from the charity model, and then these
kinds of words will become less relevant.
>----Original Message----
>From: sabmckiernan@xxxxxxxxxx
>Date: Jul 7, 2006 11:01
>To: <irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subj: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
>
>Hi,
>
>I am sure you all know this but,
>It is a charity, so by them using the word Handicapped it is, keeping
up the
>message of cap in hand. it is keeping up the charity model. after
all, Mrs.
>quinns shops are charity shops for the national council for the
blind.
>
>you would use Disability rather than Handicapped?
>well we are not disabled because we are blind!
>you see, handicapped doesn't say to me slow, retarded or anything
like that!
>Handicapped totally is using the charity model in my view. also, I
know in
>the states you still see the term visually handicapped used.
>
>well just my opinion.
>
>Sabrina
>-----Original Message-----
>From: irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:irelandvipnews-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Maria
>Sent: 06 July 2006 19:06
>To: irelandvipnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [IrelandVIPNews] Re: Wording on notices
>
>
> In my opinion disability sounds better than a handicap, but
that's once
>again my personal opinion.
>
>The alternative terms to a term handicap in our case might be words
such as
>blindness or vision impairment. What do the rest of you think?
>
>
>
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