Hi Axel,
"Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki)" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I will tell you what the problem with the new website is: the website is a HUGE part of marketing, and I do not like it. As it is now, it looks awful, it is disorganized, and it has no focus whatsoever. It is nothing more than a blog to wich Trac has been added.
I don't think the website should be published now either. However, I have *no* problem with the switch to Trac, and how it went. Could it have been better? Sure. Is it a problem? Not really.
I also question that two people (that happen to be engineers) seem to have empowered themselves to make the decision to migrate the website, when that has such a big impact in marketing communications, an area that is not their competence.
Oh, I'm afraid you'll have to do something like that more often in the future (that's not a threat, just a prediction) :-)
We never really did that, and I think it's a bit too early for attacking us like this: AFAICT Waldemar only tried to push things, while I still don't think the website itself is ready; even though it's much better than the old site right now, no matter what's good or bad for marketing, IMO.
[...]
something that has an impact on marketing communications. This one has, and big time (even when you may think it does not).
Sure it has, IMO (and IMO only) it's just not *that* important at this point. It will become much more important in the future.
I also question the lack of teamwork. The process in which the new website has been handled is typical of the lack of collaborative effort and coordination. It was full of unilateral decisions and actions (which showed slopiness), from the selection of the backend, to things like suddenly dropping some of the existing forums, then moving from Bugzilla to Trac after the fact (even when there were still problems), and now pretending that one person or two have the decision power to say when the website is ready for transition.
All of these items were discussed in team meetings or over the (admin) mailing list - the only thing you can criticize is the timing, because we haven't set any deadlines or specific dates as a team.
We've tested Trac in another host for quite some time, and no one using it had any problems with it. Just because you entered the picture late (and therefore couldn't take part in these discussions) doesn't mean there is a lack of a collaborative effort.
No problem with that. I had said it several times and I will repeat it: I really appreciate the work that is being done by Waldemar (and everybody else for that matter), but that does not mean that I have to refrain from pointing out problems when I see them.It looks to me like haiku-os.org has been turned into waldemar.org, and I don't like that, nor do I think it is good for Haiku if we want to work as a team.
We all agreed on needing a new site, and Waldemar stepped in to do the work - where is the exact problem with that? Now he wants to switch to the new site (which I can understand, sure), but of course, he won't decide this alone, he's just pushing.
Axel: that we are still in development is no justification for showing sloppiness. The website is a reflection of what we are doing, and we should strive to both look the best possible, and to use it smartly as a tool to reach our target audience; the new website does not accomplish either of this goals.
IMO the old web site actually hurts us more in our daily operation: while it looks better, it's severly outdated, it doesn't show that we're making progress, that we're a living project; it doesn't create any momentum at all. Only frequently questions like "I'm using the buildtools from your site but cannot compile Haiku".
If you're following Haiku, there is almost never a reason to look at our site; it there is a news item, you can shortly see it on the news sites anyway - and apart from that, nothing happens.
The Wiki is a much better resource for (correct) information than our website.
And making mistakes like Waldemar with his first try to convert the bug database is not just sloppy, it's human. I like seeing this much better than hiding it and pretending we're perfect.I did not say Waldemar was sloppy; I said that his rushing of the transition makes the project look sloppy. You seem to take it lightly that he decided to make the switch to Trac without announcing or even consulting it with anyone else (that's the unilateralism and lack of collaboration), but I don't, because I think it does make us look sloppy and disorganized.
Sure, he should have publicly set a deadline for the switch, and discussed it before with us. But considering he didn't, the switch went very smooth for that ;-)
Anyway, what's the rush to migrate today no matter what? Why can't we wait a few more weeks until we get it right? We have waited 5 years for Haiku, and we cannot wait a little longer to get a website right?
We can, yes, the question is just (apart from the looks): why?
What do you think the old site does better than the new one? I can only name one thing: it looks more professional. The navigation is bad, the contents are even worse.
BTW we're already waiting more than a year for this new website.
What you see at http://plonetest.haiku-os.org/ is a live beta of the new site - if you have complaints with it, feel free to utter them before someone gets the idea "oh, it's ready now, let's do the transition" :-
Koki