[geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Paul,
1.The "weasel words" as you put, if any, are not mine...the diversion(s) here
belong soley to you not me.
2. I did not claim that "an accelerometer would indicate a change in velocity
due to gravity" ..I stated as a fact that any change in whatever interial
state ( in GTR/STR Gravity and inertia are one and the same) you are in, no
matter what you take as your interial "ref frame", that for a fact, in-deed and
in application that change will and has and always will be detectable as you
said "for ever and ever amen"!.....I have "steped up to the plate" and showed,
demonstrated and even cited proof. It is you keep changing ("Making like an
eel in a bucket of warm fat") the approach without ever addressing my original
post (quantum & laser gyros/accelerometers) or my secondary post to your
"mass/spring" diversion. I have already shown you clearly and specificly how
and exactly why a accelerometor can and will and in fact does measure any
change in the intertial state, in a free fall or not. The only outstanding
issues left to be addressed if any are ones of
scale not practical/ actual application(s)
3. Quoting Relitivity assertions as proof/ validation for a Relitivitic
conclusion is thus prooven to be the circular nonsense it is.
4. .....the ball is in your court not mine
Allen
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:30:28 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
Allen D
Weasel words Allen -- weasel words! Making like an eel in a bucket of warm fat.
You claimed that an accelerometer would indicate a change in velocity due to
gravity. I have addressed this issue single mindedly for several posts. You
have consistently sought to avoid the issue, to obfuscate, to muddy the waters.
Be a man, step up to the plate and show me the error in my argument -- an
accelerometer will not demonstrate a change in velocity when caused by gravity.
I'm going to bed now so you have plenty of time to think up your next
diversionary tactic.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 5:11:50 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
No Paul, it is you who are attempting to distract me not the other way
around.....I have alreay gaiven you one "freebe" by allowing this diversion
from my orginal comments which specificaly addressed the applications of
quantum and laser gyros/ accelerometers . It was you who isisted on the whole
mass on a spring thing...then latter you through in and added Galelaio and now
"Newton's first law of motion and Hooke's law of elasticity" in the
mix.???.....I addressed the mass on the spring with the same things there that
i have boiled down for you to here in it's simpilest form..... ....It is you
who are going to have to stay focussed and address my original coments to your
diversion of my original comments. I'm the one who will not be distracted any
further....
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:43:24 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
Allen D
I will not be diverted by your attempted sleight of hand tricks. Point out the
error in my closing paragraph or forever hold to silence.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, 18 March, 2008 4:16:09 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
Paul....
Let me see if i can cut through all the chase in this our discussions here.
If the earth remained stationary wrt a distanct star but a car on the earth
first sitting at rest then began to accelerate by 1g due to that same distanct
star, would that motion be detected by your mass accelerometer in the car or
not?
There are only two posibilites:
1. If not....... then please expalin to everyone what causes the tides and
planitary bulges so we can establish the underlying physics for gravity/
inertia.....?
2. If so......... then the only difference is scale of the effects....between a
car laying horizonaly on the earths suface and "free falling at 1g toward a
distant star or a bomb hanging horizonaly to a distant star and free falling 1
g to earth's suface....
The problem with your "mass and spring" is only one of resolution or scale
that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ gyros. It is not
that the effect is not there in relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on
a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless
of GU or HC universe.......
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:25:47 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: acceleration calcs
Allen D
It may be that I just don't understand your descriptions -- heaven knows I am
not alone and you do little to ameliorate this -- but I'm going to proceed on
the basis that I do understand what you are saying. I'm not going to address
your objections point by point -- that is a quagmire that I for one have been
bogged down in more than once. I'm going to be charitable and assume that you
still do not grasp what I'm saying about accelerometers.
An accelerometer is a mass suspended in some manner, such as by a spring, in a
vehicle which is to be accelerated. Now if we were to hang this device from a
stationary beam in a 1 'g' gravity field, and it has a mass of 1 kg, then the
spring will be extended, coming to a halt when the spring exerts an upward
force of 1 kg. If the accelerometer is properly calibrated, it will read 1 kg.
If you repeat the experiment on the Moon, it will read -- roughly -- 0.166 kg.
If we take the accelerometer and mount it in a space vehicle in free fall, it
will read 0 kg. If we initiate a rocket burn, and the accelerometer reads --
while the motor is firing -- 1 kg, then we can state that our acceleration is
equal to what we would feel standing on the Earth -- an acceleration of one
'g'. Thus the extension of the spring is an exact analogue for the amount of
acceleration being experienced. It relies for its operation on Newton's first
law of motion and Hooke's law of
elasticity.
There is another way we could utilise the accelerometer to determine our
acceleration in a space vehicle. Let us assume again that we are in space in
free fall and we are about to initiate a rocket burn. This time, instead of
gluing our eyes to the accelerometer, we detach the 1 kg mass and place it
outside the vehicle in free fall with velocities matched. We initiate our
rocket burn, and with some radar or laser device we continuously measure the
distance to the 1 kg mass. If we integrate the readings over time, we can
calculate our acceleration.
Now for the crunch, the bit where our velocity changes due to acceleration by
gravity. (Note - from a recent post from Regner, perhaps 'speed' is more
appropriate here -- please comment if you think it appropriate. In any event,
what I'm trying to convey is that our rate of travel increases). This time, we
place our vehicle into elliptical orbit -- around Earth will suffice -- and as
we pass apogee, we begin to accelerate. At this moment we place our
accelerometer 1 kg mass outside the vehicle with velocities matched and engage
our distance and time measuring devices. After we have passed perigee we will
have stopped accelerating and begin decelerating. At no time from apogee to
perigee will the 1 kg mass have fallen behind or overtaken us and this will not
change from perigee back to apogee and so on for ever and ever amen. Despite
acceleration and deceleration due to gravity in an elliptical orbit, our
accelerometer will indicate no change in velocity.
Paul D
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
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