[geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:36:02 +1000
Before I get kicked I realise my explanation was simplistic..WAVE propagation
is a complex subject . There are many misconception on the nature of the tides
particularly on the internet. I think the following gives a fairly good detail
if you can cope with this rule , ITS DYNAMICALLY THE SAME FOR GEOCENTRISM OR
HELIOCENTRISM even if different theoretical reasons need to be invoked. You can
use the links directly from here if you want more detail.
Tide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tides are the rising and falling of Earth's ocean surface caused by the tidal
forces of the Moon and the Sun acting on the oceans. Tidal phenomena can occur
in any object that is subjected to a gravitational field that varies in time
and space, such as the Earth's land masses. (see Other tides).
Tides noticeably affect the depth of marine and estuarine water bodies and
produce oscillating currents known as tidal streams, making prediction of tides
very important for coastal navigation (see Tides and navigation). The strip of
seashore that is submerged at high water and exposed at low water, the
intertidal zone or foreshore, is an important ecological product of ocean tides
(see Intertidal ecology).
The changing tide produced at a given location is the result of the changing
positions of the Moon and Sun relative to the Earth coupled with the effects of
Earth rotation and the local shape of the sea floor.[1] Sea level measured by
coastal tide gauges may also be strongly affected by wind.
Contents
[hide]
a.. 1 Introduction and tidal terminology
a.. 1.1 Tidal range variation: springs and neaps
b.. 1.2 Tidal phase and amplitude
b.. 2 Tidal physics
a.. 2.1 Tidal forces
b.. 2.2 Laplace tidal equation
c.. 2.3 Tidal amplitude and cycle time
d.. 2.4 Tidal dissipation
c.. 3 Tidal observation and prediction
a.. 3.1 Timing
b.. 3.2 Tidal analysis
c.. 3.3 Tidal Current
d.. 3.4 Tidal Power Generation
d.. 4 Tides and navigation
e.. 5 Biological aspects
a.. 5.1 Intertidal ecology
b.. 5.2 Biological rhythms and the tides
f.. 6 Other tides
g.. 7 Misapplications
h.. 8 See also
i.. 9 External links
a.. 9.1 Tide predictions
j.. 10 References and notes
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Allen the fact it took you 1000 plus words to convince us my simple
explanation was wrong, shows how weak the ground is under your feet.
Logic states in your very first , your own answer. But you cannot see it.
Hence I am disenclined to read the rest. But I will as it is my happy hour.
1. If gravity in your model pushes then how on earth can the tides lag behind
the moon ..if gravity pushes the tides the moon would push the tides not lag
them behind!?
I said semantics does not matter.. Action is the same in either system
theory.
First and foremost The moon does not pull the tides nor does it or anything
else push it.. Hmm perhaps my "squeesze" was a bad choice. Water seeks its own
level according to its head pressure at various parts, causing currents.. The
head pressure is relative to gravity.. Level is also a bad choice, coz on a
curved sphere of equal gravity the water level is a curve.
The lag of the water lift is for the same reason in mine or conventional
gravity. There may be timedelay due to aether , speed of light limits what
ever, but such is a negligible few seconds. The delay is purely fluid dynamics.
in the direction of rotation, whether its earth rotation shifting away from
under the water, or rotation across the sky.. The effect shifts rather
quickly, The water wave has to catch up. And don't be confused.. The wave,
action of the tide around the globe moves at a max of 1000 mph . The water
does not move around the globe at all.. Tidal curents are caused by
depressions in the globes topological construction, such as channels estuaries,
land masses rivers etc..
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 1:56 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Phil,
How can this be so hard?.. I’m not arguing what you state in
1. If gravity in your model pushes then how on earth can the tides lag
behind the moon ..if gravity pushes the tides the moon would push the tides not
lag them behind!?
2.However, If gravity pull everything at the same time ( your attempted
GTR explanation for why we can not detect the accelerations of grav in free
fall) then it pulls the earth at the same time to the same degree...If it does
not then you can't claim the acceleration is not detected..for crying out loud
go to the beach and watch it...but then if you say that is the observable
acceleration of earth in a free fall around the sun& moon then you cant claim
the reason we cannot detect the earths acceleration around the sun because
gravity is pulling everything all at the same time......!?
You don't see that it is the GTR 's acceleration explanations that lost
this whole argument before it began not me. You don't seem to fully
understanding the GTR dynamics in the first place. However, neither I nor my
"gravity" theory has any problems or inconsistencies with the tides and
accelerations in a free fall.. GTR does...so which one is closer to the
truth...?!........If inertial accelerations cannot be detected in free fall
then how can the earths oceans demonstrate a physical and observable
acceleration of the earth/ moon/ sun/ in free fall around one another’s
gravitational field? There is no difference between the earth/ oceans and your
accelerometers........... Both are simply mass suspended elastically(
spring/hydrostatic force)!....Phill you missing the obvious ...... There is a
difference the text book answers found in GTR and the practical applications
in the real world.
Yes we see tides they are real "in carnate"....the MS explanations for what
causes them is not only just imagined but inconsistent with GTR's / your
explanations for accelerations in a free fall ....You don’t seem to grasp the
difference between reality (tides) and imagination (GTR accelerations)..?
Reality and GTR are not compatible ....!?
How gravity works does make a great deal of difference. Yes you still call
it gravity but a push gravity does not function the same way a pull gravity is
assumed.....It could, but observations such as the tides and the Allais effect
demonstrate that it most certainly does not work the way MS gravity in a grav
free fall claims or attempts to explain how things work. It is much more then
just a "semantic theory". It gets to the very core of how things could or
would work, which are not the same in the two theories! GTR cannot be the
explanation for how things work...at least if logic and observations "have
anything to do with the conclusions"....??? Tides demonstrate usfull
information about gravity it is just not consistent with GTR's assertions!
3. The Allais effect demonstrates that the position of the moon with the
sun do have a direct, (not just assumed delay… this is to say the tides and the
moon/ sun do not correspond exactly and it is not even consistent) association
with the tides. Further, That direct relationship shows that gravity
pushes.......well how can gravity push but cause the tides to lag behind rather
then push ahead???????!!!!!
The Answer is simple:
A. Gravity does not work in any shape form or fashion as MS portrays it
certainly not within GTR.
B. The relationship between the moon/sun and tides is therefore related but
only indirectly not directly. If it were direct then the push gravity of the
moon would cause the tides to advance the moon/suns positions not lag....that
is not the case...
C. There is only one known possible "physical cause" and mechanical action
that is capable of creating such a phenomena based on the locations of other
objects within a given matrix.....and for other just as if not more powerful
reasons that (i will not get into here)
The solution: The physical cause of gravity is a vibration in a
"Homogeneous", "smooth" matrix (aether) with "non-indigenous" substances
(ordinary matter) scattered throughout it.... The speed of light is only a
limit for EMR because EMR are ultra high frequencies in a dense medium.....thus
restricted just as in the case of various frequencies of light moving at
differnet speeds through glass, air, water........Gravity is a very low
frequency that traverses a very dense medium, the whole universe in somthing
like -10^44 sec that is why it cannot be detected directly only its effects can
be measured... instrumentations and the affects of aether waves on matter
directly are only capable of demonstrating a effect at light speed at best but
the force/wave itself prorogates faster then is possible to measure... our
ability to measure it is limited to the speed of light...but there are other
ways to ascertain it's "properties".....they are just very difficult....
Viva "AVGM" (Aetheral Vibrational Gravitational Model).. (:-D)
That is the very very short version.....
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 7:30:57 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Phil, There can be no "differeing gravity foces." to accelerate the water
upward if gravity pulls on everthing on the accelerometer ......Allen
Allen, when the moon is dead centre over head the net or resultant of the
two gravitational forces 180 degrees out of phase is less at that point than it
is at any other phase angle either side of top dead centre. That is what I
meant by differing gravity, or varying gravity.. Water seeks a common level
due to gravity.. It will flow from where there is no moon overhead to that area
beneath the moon.
This is proven no matter which semantic theory you want to apply to
gravity.
I say the gravity is aetheric push not molecular pull. But I still call it
gravity. Its a very grave subject. a matter of grave concern. I gravitate to
my theory. Therefore if the aether over here squeezes all the water to over
there under the moon, because the moon interfered with and caused a lower
aether pressure or less gravity under the moon, then it is still all the same
thing.. The moon caused the tides by being where it is..
And don't try bringing this into it, "if gravity pulls on everthing on the
accelerometer "
You lost that argument well and truely before you started it..
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Phil, There can be no "differeing gravity foces." to accelerate the
water upward if gravity pulls on everthing on the accelerometer (earth) at the
same time in the same way such that it prevents a detectable acceleration in
free fall....... !?
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 4:08:42 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Thank you Peter.. You saved me from wondering how to explain the simple
phenomena to them.. Because the water is fluid tidal flows can move under the
differeing gravity foces.
When the moon is overhead we weigh less because we are subject to two
forces one up one down and the vector difference is positive down..
Of course there will be a point somewhere between the bodies closer to
the moon where the vector forces in each direction will be equal and a mass
will have no weight. Go closer to the moon and it will fall to the moon go
closer to the earth and it will fall back to earth.. I would imagine this
neutral position would be easier to maintain than the similar experience on a
piece of iron between two magnets.. But even there, we can have a neutral
position of zero force.. not zero magnetism.. to say zero gravity is a
misnomer.. we mean zero force of gravity due to balancing forces.
Its just a big hill actually.. If we had a real road to the moon, it
would be uphill three quarters of the way, and down hill the rest of the way.
Or again if you kick a ball straight up into the air there wil be a split
second when it will have no weight, this does not mean there was no gravity..
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: PETER CHARLTON
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:06 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
As you know, I have no scientific knowledge, but it seems logical to me
that, rather than there being a "zero gravity point", that instead there is a
point where the pull of gravity from the moon, is equal to the pull of gravity
from the Earth, that is, the two forces pulling equaliy at a given point.
If you go nearer the moon, you still have the pull of gravity from the
Earth, but it is less than the increasing pull from the moon, and visa versa.
Surely, if there was a point where gravity was zero, the moon would
escape from its orbit?
Pete Charlton
----- Original Message -----
From: Bernie Brauer
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:04 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Tides and the moon and M-M
Statement/Question:
"It is widely accepted, although not by me, that the moon causes the
tides. It is also widely accepted, although not by me, that there exists a
zero-gravity point situated somewhere between the World and moon.
My question is this: If the ocean were situated at the zero-gravity
point, then there would be no tide. Closer to the World the pull of the World
is stronger. Closer to the moon the pull of the moon is stronger. The net
effect, this side of the zero-gravity point, is always a positive pull by the
World. Since this is equivalent to a force of gravity that produces a stronger
pull as we take the oceans further this side of the zero-gravity point, then
how does the moon produce the tides?" Dr. Neville T. Jones
Response:
"IT DOES NOT DIRECTLY, ONLY INDIRECTLY. Hooray! I’m so glad finally
someone else sees this issue too. Further, the tides are one of the major
reasons why I model gravity as a vibration, for The Alias Effect shows that the
position of the sun and moon has a relationship to gravity on Earth but tides
demonstrate that they are not directly related due to the whole satellites
issues as well as atmosphere. However, in vibrational gravity the positions of
CB's ( Celestial Bodies ) will affect the vibrational wave. In short, the tides
are caused by the squeezing effect of the gravity vibration, that is to say,
that there is no additional or absence of gravity force, only a uneven
squeezing effect that is a result in part due to sun/moon/background-stars
positioning ( The Alias Effect proves this ). A vibration is the only known
physical explanation that can account for that effect while producing a
non-detectable gravity force in all of its anomalies, which are not anomalies
but rather clear indicators that gravity is a vibration of aether waves. No
other known physical construct could account for all those things." Allen Daves
Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I haven't yet seen anyone come with an answer to something Neville,
I think, once said regarding the point, which must exist, between the Earth and
the Moon where the gravity is zero. This being the case how is it that the Moon
controls the tides? I'm sure, I think, that there must be a simple answer.
The M-M part of the subject is to ask Regner how he is getting on
with the answering the interferometer experiments wrt a non-moving Earth?
Jack
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