[geocentrism] Re: The Trinity
- From: "PETER CHARLTON" <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:24:05 -0000
Hi Philip,
I wouldnt say "creation must have been stuffed up the first time round", but
that a perfect creation was ruined by our disobediant use of the free will we
where given.
Not sure of what you mean in the last sentance, but now the lesson of using our
free will to disobey Gods commandments has been learnt, and the resulting
suffering demonstrated to all men, and to the heavenly host, it wont be
nessesary to allow it to happen again.
The Heavenly Court in the Daniel scriptures I quoted involved Judgement and
"books", a president has now been set and recorded.
Any use of our, or an angels, free will to reject or call into question Gods
soverignty will result in destruction of the offender.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:58 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: The Trinity
Peter.. So when Christ has ruled until he has brought the creation back to
perfection,
Thanks Peter.. Sort of prooves Creation must have been stuffed up the first
time round... like as I complained of.
Proof.. If souls, in this new perfection, cannot sin, yet have free will...
hasn't there been some improvement? We have to assume if we make it to Heaven,
we can never be expelled for ever. What changed.. ?
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: PETER CHARLTON
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:28 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: The Trinity
Why a Trinity anyway?, a lot of scripture can be used to try and claim
Jesus and God are the same, but isnt that two?, maybe the fact that Pagan Sun
gods came in 3s has something to do with it?, maybe this is the Great Apostocy
that must come before the second coming?
As for Holy Spirit being another face of a Trinity God, God is a Spirit
anyway, Jesus informs us, is God sometimes not Holy and sometimes he is so that
he needs two forms?
Or maybe the Holy Spirit is a force God uses, he breathed Spirit into Adan
to make him come to Life, maybe Holy Spirit which Christians recieve with the
resultant display of "Fruits of the Spirit" is a better form of Gods life force
that he gives to all Humans.
As for the Bibles view of Jesus being God, lets look at a couple of
scenarios that occur in Heaven.
The first from Daniel where Jesus gains access to the throne of God where
he is given the Kingship over Gods Kingdom on Earth.
DAN 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days
did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the
pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
DAN 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand
thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before
him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
DAN 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man
came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they
brought him near before him.
DAN 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that
all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an
everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which
shall not be destroyed.
Why would they need to bring Jesus to the throne of God if he was God
allready?
This second senario shows what Jesus does with the Kingdom he was given in
the first senario after the thousand years have ended.
1COR 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1COR 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom
to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority
and power.
1COR 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1COR 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1COR 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all
things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him.
1COR 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the
Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God
may be all in all.
So when Christ has ruled until he has brought the creation back to
perfection, what does he do?, he gives the Kingdom back to the one who gave him
the Kingdom in the first place, and verse 28 tells us that even the Son, Jesus,
shall be subjected to the one that gave him this Kingdom, that is God.
Never mind all the other Biblical evidences such as Jesus saying he doesnt
know when his second coming is, that only God knows, or the fact that Gods
people, the Jews, where informed God is One, to deferential him from all the
Egyption Trinity gods they had been exposed to.
Both the Jews and the Muslims, decendants of Abraham himself reject the
Christian Trinity.
No wonder Jesus will say to many, "!Get away from me, I never knew you"
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Lewis
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] The Trinity
Neville Jones wrote:
My faith is in our Father, not in any man. I am a Unitarian, not a
Trinitarian.
Neville do you accept the first two verses of Genesis? The word 'God'
used is plural in Hebrew. Then who or what was the 'Spirit of God' that was
hovering? Is this Spirit the same as God or is it something different from God?
Gen 1:26.
Who was the 'Us' that God was referring to when he said 'Let Us make man
etc.'
As I understand Neville you accept the Gospel of John or Magdalene as you
you would call it. So what do you understand about verse 1? John is clearly
referring to Jesus who was in the beginning and was God.
Now we have a plural God mentioned in verse 1, a Spirit of God and then
the use of the word 'US' in verse 26 and finally then Jesus in John 1:1. The
Trinity is mentioned immediately in the first two verses of Genesis and among
many other places in the Bible and Jesus' connection confirmed by John 1:1. It
is absolutely clear that God is not a 'unity God' but a 'Trinity God'.
Your insistence of slavishly using this single scripture "By myself I can
do nothing." to deny the Trinity in the face of the above scriptures shows your
inability to understand how God can be three distinct persons. It is purely
your inability to comprehend or willingness to accept such a concept. In spite
of your undoubted human intelligence and human reasoning powers, they just
won't stretch to comprehending the Trinity.
May I suggest you take a look at a small A5 size book that I sent to
Steven which details almost all the references to the Trinity in the Bible. But
I imagine your let-out will be that the Bible it is just a book of astrology,
except for some bits, and therefore unworthy of further investigation.
As an academic exercise why don't you check-out this book and see if it
does indeed prove the Trinity even though you reject the Bible itself. If you
can show me that it doesn't then I will personally re-think the Trinity. Please
don't cloud the issue with the introduction of extra-Biblical material. The
Bible has to stand or fall on this one issue - does the Bible supports a
Trinity Godhead?
Jack
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