Dear Philip, They get round it by saying that there is a gyroscopic wobble of the world which exactly cancels out this annual rotation. I believe it called a precession. Wow what a very neat coincidence for them! Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: philip madsen To: geocentrism list Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Stevens points 4. No observed yearly motion of stars around ecliptic N/S-poles. If this is true, what need is there of another four? Steven, you mentioned that the pole stars, North or south dont matter, prescribes a small circle daily due to the earths rotation, or the reverse, the stars orbit. Because of the small base line of rotation. Next you said that this small circle of observed motion of those stars should prescribe a much larger circle during the period of a year, due to the very much larger base line traveled by the earth around the sun. Are you saying that this large circle of motion is not observed annually? I have no astronomy knowledge I have to take these observations on trust. After all there ARE many independent/amateur astronomers with their own observatories. But if this annual motion of the star is not observed, surely then there is no need of any other point to prove the earth is not traversing this orbit around the sun. Please explain more. And if what you say is truely observed, surely MS would be aware of it, then how do they explain it away? Philip.