The way this is going, Paul must be chuckling.. He can be forgiven for thinking that the way we are going we are all going to end up athiests like himself.. You can forget it Paul!. Though they may go through transmarginal states, (Asimov) zealots always remain zealots. This all happened before with Martin, remember.. Never got aywhere then either, though Martin I think did present himself very well. He was so good I thought he might have been a sneaky Catholic... Philip.