Masterful rebuttal Allen, but haven't you realised yet that you are wasting your time. Neville's intelligence and his very human reasoning is getting in his way. Remember that Jesus told us not to 'cast pearls before swine' or 'If they won't listen shake off the dust of that place from your feet'.
Jack Allen Daves wrote:
*blue* ----- Original Message ---- From: Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:52:03 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: A tool of Satan-----Original Message----- *From:* allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx *Sent:* Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:59:58 -0700 (PDT) /I have told you this before, but I will tell you in all sincerity again, "go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'." (1st canonical gospel, 9:13a, NIV.)/1. This still begs the question how do you know that God really desires mercy? Three reasons: It says so in Hosea. 'Jesus' claims that it is true. My experience/spirit acknowledges it to be true. Is mercy good only in your head or Godʼs as well and how can you be sure of that? Mabye the real God is a vengfull God and what you call good is evil......? This is a possibility, true, but I have considered it deeply about 6-12 months ago and I have rejected it. (We are back to the good tree producing bad fruit that started this discussion.) 2. More importaintly, a closer examination of that verse both in Hosea as well as Mat 19:13.. shows us that Christ audience did not understand that verse either (of course they didn't, since otherwise he would not have needed to tell them to go away and figure it out - someone who is well is in no need of a doctor - is that not the immediately preceding verse?), so what makes you so sure you do?.... Did they sacrifice?...Yes! Did Christ condemn sacrifices....NO!... Are you claiming that Christ condoned sacrifice, or that he simply is not recorded as condemning sacrifice? *_Mark 1:44_*..*_Moses comanded sacrifice for the cleasing........_*What they like many do not understand, which is what Christ was showing them is just because there is a acceptable sacrifice for mistreating people does not mean it is acceptable to mistreat your brother for your own sake ( the one he had healed )and make up for it with a "required sacrifice". The sacrifice does not make up for the evil acts particular if the act is intentional. They were asking a question why do you eat with publicans and sinners? This was after Christ had just healed a man ...did they care about the man or the publicans&sinners...NO! they only cared about themselfs. All the sacrifice in the world will not make up for their apathy and contempt for the truth and work of God, which was Christ comming to heal the sick and bring the words of life to the lost ....what were they doing?......./Mat 23:13 you dont go in and you suffer not them that would.........../ Christ is pointing out that if they had the truth of God /mercy they would not condemn work of God a mercifully act as they did throughout His ministry and secondly seek to help/save not just condemn their brothers who they condemn falsely. No. What Christ was pointing out was that our Father not only desires mercy to be shown by us, but also does not desire sacrifice of living creatures.* "only mercy" is not found in that verse......*..*That is what you say about the verse, not what the verse says.. You are assuming a concept into the verse....the verse is about the application mercy not the condemation of sacrifice*....that was jesus point when he said..../.Matthew 21: 31 the publicans and harlots go into the kingdom before you do./...They did not have mercy on anyone, they were only interested in being self-righteous (I don't think that whores are usually noted for being self-righteous - besides which, how do you KNOW that they did not display mercy?)* he was not speaking to the whores there, he was speaking to the pharisees and leaders of the day....?* and condemn any and everyone that did not conform to them including Christ and anyone the Christ helped. ....You see they were out to silence and eventually would kill the Christ. No, Allen. This brings us back to the sacrifice of a human being. Murder, okay, from their point of view, but you are claiming that our Father required this as to be a sacrifice from before the universe's creation. *YES...but it was God in the flesh (Christr) who demanded that of himself (son) God is not bound by human morality, God sets the morality for man not the other way around. you have it backwards............that is in part Why God almighty had to do it himself cos it would not be acceptable for or from a man .....?* *God made that determination before the foundation of the world....* *Christ offered himself he laid his life down no one took it from him..?* *JOHN 10:18 .."NO MAN take it from me"...how could they He is God..?* In which case, they would have had absolutely no way of not wanting Christ's blood. The very purpose of their existence would have been to bay for his blood. *Every since Adam the men of God have been looking for the Christ. They did not understand the purpose of Christ or the sacrifice just like many do not today, as such God Who Sacrified himself used their own ignorance and wickedness to accomplish God's Righteous plan...ACTS 2:22-23 *..... it There are still plenty of folk who need to as Christ said " Go lean what this means"....The verses are not condeming sacrifice without assuming that into the verse ( circular logic), Jesus is puting sacrifice in perspective. The verse is clear: Our Father does not desire sacrifice. This is simple English. *Right he desires mercy not sacrifice........but he did not say that sacrifice was therofre not or ever nessisary.... sacrife is the penilty for the transgression............ do you desire to punish your childeren?.....is it nessisary?..why you are making the rules up you can just say everything is ok and forget about the punishment right?...why not?..........man is made in the image of God....God did not desire the disobediance of man, but it is nessisary otherwise there could be no other "will" external of God ie...."contraly to the will of God" if everything was according to the will of God.....Romans 9:18-19... you cannot have a choice without 1. Options 2. the capcity to exercise those options.....Could man exercise his option to disobey...yes....could he opt to reconcile himself back to God....NO....Only God could do that but God determined how and why it was to be done and by Whom.....HIMSELF cos Man could not do it himself......that is Why Christ Came......*But they would not hear his words then and I dont see that you are listining to them now.......... What if you are one of the ones who needs to figure out what it means, Allen? *I apply context and use the only source of information we have about the issue and man to ascertain the issue and the man...where as you pick and choose meaning external of what context and information we have about the issue /(from the only source we have)/ with nothing more then how "you feel".......Well now,..... what if i did that with the rest of human history...say Adolf Hitler...I could show he was a good man if i pick and choose only what i feel is true about him from the only sources we have about him.. Hitler did not drink alchool or smoke................"surely this man was the son of God" !? *with Neville.------------------------------------------------------------------------*Get Free Smileys for Your IM & Email* - Learn more at www.crawler.com/smileys <http://www.crawler.com/smileys> Works with AIM^® , MSN^® Messenger, Yahoo!^® Messenger, ICQ^® , Google Talk^™ and most webmails
