[geocentrism] Re: A tool of Satan
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:26:30 -0700 (PDT)
blue
----- Original Message ----
From: Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:52:03 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: A tool of Satan
-----Original Message-----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:59:58 -0700 (PDT)
I have told you this before, but I will tell you in all sincerity again, "go
and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'." (1st canonical
gospel, 9:13a, NIV.)
1. This still begs the question how do you know that God really desires mercy?
Three reasons: It says so in Hosea. 'Jesus' claims that it is true. My
experience/spirit acknowledges it to be true.
Is mercy good only in your head or Godʼs as well and how can you be sure of
that? Mabye the real God is a vengfull God and what you call good is evil......?
This is a possibility, true, but I have considered it deeply about 6-12 months
ago and I have rejected it. (We are back to the good tree producing bad fruit
that started this discussion.)
2. More importaintly, a closer examination of that verse both in Hosea as well
as Mat 19:13.. shows us that Christ audience did not understand that verse
either (of course they didn't, since otherwise he would not have needed to tell
them to go away and figure it out - someone who is well is in no need of a
doctor - is that not the immediately preceding verse?), so what makes you so
sure you do?.... Did they sacrifice?...Yes! Did Christ condemn
sacrifices....NO!... Are you claiming that Christ condoned sacrifice, or that
he simply is not recorded as condemning sacrifice? Mark 1:44..Moses comanded
sacrifice for the cleasing........What they like many do not understand, which
is what Christ was showing them is just because there is a acceptable sacrifice
for mistreating people does not mean it is acceptable to mistreat your brother
for your own sake ( the one he had healed )and make up for it with a "required
sacrifice". The sacrifice does not make up for
the evil acts particular if the act is intentional. They were asking a
question why do you eat with publicans and sinners? This was after Christ had
just healed a man ...did they care about the man or the publicans&sinners...NO!
they only cared about themselfs. All the sacrifice in the world will not make
up for their apathy and contempt for the truth and work of God, which was
Christ comming to heal the sick and bring the words of life to the lost
....what were they doing?.......Mat 23:13 you dont go in and you suffer not
them that would........... Christ is pointing out that if they had the truth of
God /mercy they would not condemn work of God a mercifully act as they did
throughout His ministry and secondly seek to help/save not just condemn their
brothers who they condemn falsely. No. What Christ was pointing out was that
our Father not only desires mercy to be shown by us, but also does not desire
sacrifice of living creatures. "only mercy" is not
found in that verse........That is what you say about the verse, not what the
verse says.. You are assuming a concept into the verse....the verse is about
the application mercy not the condemation of sacrifice....that was jesus point
when he said.....Matthew 21: 31 the publicans and harlots go into the kingdom
before you do....They did not have mercy on anyone, they were only interested
in being self-righteous (I don't think that whores are usually noted for being
self-righteous - besides which, how do you KNOW that they did not display
mercy?) he was not speaking to the whores there, he was speaking to the
pharisees and leaders of the day....? and condemn any and everyone that did not
conform to them including Christ and anyone the Christ helped. ....You see they
were out to silence and eventually would kill the Christ. No, Allen. This
brings us back to the sacrifice of a human being. Murder, okay, from their
point of view, but you are claiming that
our Father required this as to be a sacrifice from before the universe's
creation. YES...but it was God in the flesh (Christr) who demanded that of
himself (son) God is not bound by human morality, God sets the morality for man
not the other way around. you have it backwards............that is in part Why
God almighty had to do it himself cos it would not be acceptable for or from a
man .....? God made that determination before the foundation of the world....
Christ offered himself he laid his life down no one took it from him..? JOHN
10:18 .."NO MAN take it from me"...how could they He is God..? In which case,
they would have had absolutely no way of not wanting Christ's blood. The very
purpose of their existence would have been to bay for his blood. Every since
Adam the men of God have been looking for the Christ. They did not understand
the purpose of Christ or the sacrifice just like many do not today, as such God
Who Sacrified himself used their
own ignorance and wickedness to accomplish God's Righteous plan...ACTS 2:22-23
..... it There are still plenty of folk who need to as Christ said " Go lean
what this means"....The verses are not condeming sacrifice without assuming
that into the verse ( circular logic), Jesus is puting sacrifice in
perspective. The verse is clear: Our Father does not desire sacrifice. This is
simple English. Right he desires mercy not sacrifice........but he did not say
that sacrifice was therofre not or ever nessisary.... sacrife is the penilty
for the transgression............ do you desire to punish your
childeren?.....is it nessisary?..why you are making the rules up you can just
say everything is ok and forget about the punishment right?...why
not?..........man is made in the image of God....God did not desire the
disobediance of man, but it is nessisary otherwise there could be no other
"will" external of God ie...."contraly to the will of God" if everything was
according to the will of God.....Romans 9:18-19... you cannot have a choice
without 1. Options 2. the capcity to exercise those options.....Could man
exercise his option to disobey...yes....could he opt to reconcile himself back
to God....NO....Only God could do that but God determined how and why it was to
be done and by Whom.....HIMSELF cos Man could not do it himself......that is
Why Christ Came......But they would not hear his words then and I dont see that
you are listining to them now..........
What if you are one of the ones who needs to figure out what it means, Allen? I
apply context and use the only source of information we have about the issue
and man to ascertain the issue and the man...where as you pick and choose
meaning external of what context and information we have about the issue (from
the only source we have) with nothing more then how "you feel".......Well
now,..... what if i did that with the rest of human history...say Adolf
Hitler...I could show he was a good man if i pick and choose only what i feel
is true about him from the only sources we have about him.. Hitler did not
drink alchool or smoke................"surely this man was the son of God" !?
with Neville.
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