Flash picture that is a great idea hadn't really thought of that though I have used the trick to look inside of walls and things in historic buildings. I will remember that the next time I go .....that way if you make the snake extremely mad by poking him with a stick you at least give yourself a chance of not being bitten by blinding him :P Dan Jack Konecker <jack.konecker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Instead of sticking a hand into a deep dark place, many geocachers carry a walking stick and use the stick to move things around. Let the snake bite the walking stick and not the hand! If you have to use your hand, some people bring gloves with them for just the occassion. One trick to GeoJim taught me was that instead of sticking your hand into the hollow of a tree and blindly feeling around, you take a flash picture with a digital camera and then look at the picture. --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.