Following this thread is fascinating. The more I read, the more I think that "pure" capitalism will never work. To use the "environmental" analogy: it makes sense for a pure capitalist to push his/her product to be the cheapest. So, if I want to build a plant that produces paper, why don't I build one in Brazil. Then once the "cheap" wood there is gone, I move on to another country. Why pay for recycling when I can just as easily just cut the cost out of my spreadsheet, after all, the world is good for at least another 100 years or so. By then I will be dead and who really cares about the rest? By the way, why do those who believe in "may the best product win" (ie capitalism) also seem to pay their taxes? After all, why pay taxes when you can hire your own law-enforcer/fireman/doctor/teacher/street-cleaner/etc and get the best person to do the job. This will save money and everything will become more efficient. Or is that too much bother? What happens when people join together to deliver a better product (eg a cheaper police force for their community). Then do you join them? How do you decide on where this new police force spend its time? Seems to me you become a "mini" goverment soon and we are back at square one. Also, as soon as you start worrying about your impact on others, you are no longer truly a "capitalist". But then, you must decide where you draw the line, how much help you give to others. For example, I want my friends to do well. granted, they are not all geniuses like I am (I am truly brilliant in chemistry by the way ;) ) but, I want them to have some money. Why? Because if they don't have money then they can't buy my product. Aaah, but they can develop their own product. True, but it is easier for them to do "affirmative shopping" and redistribute my wealth to the "needy". After all, they are very good at it and thus they have developed a good product. Seems like pure capitalism to me. And now, I am hurting because I was just relieved of my "extraneous" assets. We can dissect this question a million ways. Eventually, the people not affected will not see a problem. Those who are affected will cry bloody murder. I think that we should read the biographies of the great inventors of the last 2 centuries. Most of them collaborated at some level or another. Sitting together on train journeys, in restaurants, etc and thye discussed their ideas. They knew who had thought of what and cooperated for what they percieved to be "the good of science". True we got the atomic bomb out of them, but a lot of other good came out of too. By the way, you have all given me 2 brilliant ideas for an in-game dynamic. Someone asked me: "how will your game be any different from CIV III? Well, now I know of one more aspect. I will give players the opportunity to help other players to develop. They will be able to donate money for specific projects which will raise the standard of living of the poeple in the other country. Then they will be able to increase trade as they will be able to sell their products. (eg, I have all the iron mines and I want to seel iron goods to the neighbour). This idea is not original I am basing it it on the news I read a few years back that the US had granted China preferential trading status (ie exempt of certain import taxes for X years), in exchange of which US companies got early access to the Chinese markets after Y years.The second idea is that I will allow the military to divide its spending between "action" units (troops) and "intel" units. Then the intel units's time can be devoted to straling trade info from the other players, resulting in a boost in commerce for my country. THESE will NOT be available in a CAPITALISTIC government as it would mean that inferior products will be pushed forward. What do yous think? Would it make the game stand out a bit? -- This message is intended for the addressee only and is confidential and the copying thereof is prohibited. The above information may contain personal views of the author thereof and is not necessarily the views or policies of the University of Pretoria and the University of Pretoria does therefore not accept liability for any damages arising from the correctness of the facts stated in this communication, unless specifically stated. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis -- -- Type: text/x-vcard -- File: awhaley.vcf