Robert Adams
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Ray Buck <rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Lemme make sure of something. Are we talking about a TH700R4?
That's what the diagram in figure 2 shows. I know exactly which
spring it mentions, cuz I've had to mess with it in installing a
shift kit. But as I recall, it's not in a TH200-4R. Been a long
time, tho.
The other issue is that of the ECM-controlled lockup in Figure 4:
The ECU SHOULD decide when to apply the ground to pin D and the
+12v to pin A. I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to work in
2nd, 3rd and 4th, because under normal circumstances, it doesn't
lock up until it gets into 4th. I know this is the way the TH700
works in my Burb. And it's controlled by that 4th gear switch.
The way that diagram is drawn is ambiguous. We don't know whether
the 4th gear switch opens in 4th or closes.
Also, I don't know if you have the ECU connected to the harness.
If you do, then all bets are off because there are probably
multiple paths to ground for the solenoid (pin D) and possibly
multiple 12v supplies to pin A.
I'd do this. I'd disconnect the ECM's connector, run a fused 12v
to pin A and on pin D, a wire to an N/O switch that has the other
side going to ground. Then there are no variables. You should be
able to lock/unlock the solenoid every time you make/break the
switch connection. If this works, then the solenoid is fine as
well as the converter. Then if you want to use the B&M device,
start measuring voltages at pins A and D, and see if you have
ground at pin B in or out of 4th. The lift otta be real handy for
this so you can run it in gear with the wheels in the air and do
the voltage measurements.
If it works as advertised, there should be ground at D all the
time and 12v at A whenever the box tells it to lock up....using
whatever logic is uses. This is a "switched hot circuit",
possibly a little safer than a "switched ground circuit" that can
be triggered by any ground source...but it's harder to keep track
of if there are multiple sources of "hot."
hth,
r
On 12/4/2010 7:48 PM, John Christensen wrote:
Here is the PDF of the insturctions:
http://www.bmracing.com/bmracing/installation_instruction/9500475-08.pdf
Maybe this will shed some light.
Thanks all!
JC
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Ray Buck <rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
It could depend on whether he had a normally open or normally
closed 4th gear switch, I'd think. If it was a normally
closed switch, it could be grounding the solenoid any time
it's out of 1st gear, causing it to lock in 2nd and 3rd, then
unlock in 4th. Why it worked the first time and why the
switch didn't kill it is beyond me. I'd THINK that the
switch should prevent the +12v from being applied to the hot
side of the solenoid. But if it only prevents the kit from
applying a ground, then the ground could be coming from the
4th gear switch.
r
On 12/4/2010 6:50 PM, Robert Adams wrote:
Well you don't have the valve body
controlled lockup. I have never heard anything say anything
about removing a spring in the tcc valve train. Just one
valve and it's a long spool valve in the valve body which
the TCC solenoid goes up against.
As for the solenoid the TCC is a two wire
on your Monte.
If it feels like it's locking up
press the brake just enough to get the brake lights to come
on. This will cut power to the solenoid. If it's still
locked up then there is something wrong internally. Either a
bad TCC solenoid worn TCC valve etc.
With any TCC not unlocking with a
2004r you can first try to replace the solenoid. If the
problem is still there then the TCC valve bore is worn and
the solenoid can't exhaust enough fluid and some of it ends
up going to the TCC and causing it to lockup. Worn TCC
valves are very common on 2004rs and 700r4s. There is a
replacement valve with a teflon seal that fixes it. I think
I still have one. Often a new TCC solenoid bandaids the
problem because it is made to exhaust more fluid than the
stock one.
So... Many times the stock solenoid
works just fine it's actually the valve leaking too much
fluid and the new design solenoid fixes it (sort of).
Robert Adams
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:32 PM, John Christensen
<johncgg@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:johncgg@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Chris sent the lockup kit for the Monte and I installed
it today. Tom came over and we took it for a test drive.
At first it seemed to work as advertised. It locked up
at the speed when the red LED turned to green. After
driving a bit, and coming to a stop, it seemed to stay
locked up. Then it was jumping in and out of lock. Even
at 2nd and third gear. Something isn't right with it.
There is an on/off switch on the unit. Pushing that to
off didn't unlock it. What was odd, was that it would be
unlocked, then lock in the lower gear. So it isn't stuck
on, it is getting a completed circuit somehow, when it
is not intended.
I am thinking there are several things that could be
causing this. In the instructions, it talks about a
spring that needs to be removed in the valve body. This
is for early models (before 89) that have the valve body
controlled lock up. Anyone know about this? In the text,
it mentions: Custom transmissioninstallations utilizing
early models with valve body controlled lockup speed may
requite some modification to operate correctly. locate
the converter clutch valve train in the valve boday.
Deactivate the converter clutch shift valve by trmoving
the spring holding the valve train in the OFF position.
This will allow the converter clutch shift valve to move
to the ON position, and ensure that control pressure is
always available at the converter clutch apply valve
after the first gear shift. It may also be necessary to
remove the pan to identify which kind of solenoid and
wiring sceme is used on your particular unit.
It also says there are 2 types of solenoids, one wire
and 2 wire. The one wire needs only the + to go to the
pin A. Where A is + and D is ground (I grounded the D
pin). So maybe if i lift the ground on the case, it will
work. Looks like I need to get in the pan to find out. I
may have a picture of it when it was open and upside
down on the bench. I'll have to check.
I spoke to Ray on the phone, and he was suggesting that
the 4th gear switch internally could be a type that is
either normally open, or normally closed. Because the
kit has a wire on the 4 pin connector that goes to a
ground on the case, I am wondering if that is a
conflict, and may be causing it to engage in the lower
gears. I haven't tried it without the ground wire hooked
up.
I was unable to get together with B&M tech support. It's
Monday through Friday. Next stop is the tech support on
the web site. Tom offerd the lift at the school on
Sunday, but I want to research it before tearing in to
the pan.
At least I know the lockup works. I don't think it is
sticking, because it is sort of randomly engaging in 2nd
and third when it has already disengaged. It is also
locking with the LED showing red. So Ray may have
something there on the grounding conflict.
Just wanted to run this past everyone. I have wired the
same kit on the 350C of the El Camino before going back
to computer control, and it worked flawlessly for years.
I have a feeling it is the ground on the case, or the
spring in the valve body. I'll get it sorted out
eventually.
That was the automotive therapy for today.
JC
---
John Christensen
1984 El Camino "Elkenstein" 350 TBI
NECOA #042 http://www.myelcamino.net
<http://www.myelcamino.net/>
Saint Charles, IL
---
John Christensen
1984 El Camino "Elkenstein" 350 TBI
NECOA #042 http://www.myelcamino.net
<http://www.myelcamino.net/>
Saint Charles, IL
