Lemme make sure of something. Are we
talking about a TH700R4? That's what the diagram in figure 2
shows. I know exactly which spring it mentions, cuz I've had to
mess with it in installing a shift kit. But as I recall, it's not
in a TH200-4R. Been a long time, tho.
The other issue is that of the ECM-controlled lockup in Figure 4:
The ECU SHOULD decide when to apply the ground to pin D and the +12v
to pin A. I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to work in 2nd,
3rd and 4th, because under normal circumstances, it doesn't lock up
until it gets into 4th. I know this is the way the TH700 works in
my Burb. And it's controlled by that 4th gear switch.
The way that diagram is drawn is ambiguous. We don't know whether
the 4th gear switch opens in 4th or closes.
Also, I don't know if you have the ECU connected to the harness. If
you do, then all bets are off because there are probably multiple
paths to ground for the solenoid (pin D) and possibly multiple 12v
supplies to pin A.
I'd do this. I'd disconnect the ECM's connector, run a fused 12v to
pin A and on pin D, a wire to an N/O switch that has the other side
going to ground. Then there are no variables. You should be able
to lock/unlock the solenoid every time you make/break the switch
connection. If this works, then the solenoid is fine as well as the
converter. Then if you want to use the B&M device, start
measuring voltages at pins A and D, and see if you have ground at
pin B in or out of 4th. The lift otta be real handy for this so you
can run it in gear with the wheels in the air and do the voltage
measurements.
If it works as advertised, there should be ground at D all the time
and 12v at A whenever the box tells it to lock up....using whatever
logic is uses. This is a "switched hot circuit", possibly a little
safer than a "switched ground circuit" that can be triggered by any
ground source...but it's harder to keep track of if there are
multiple sources of "hot."
hth,
r
On 12/4/2010 7:48 PM, John Christensen wrote:
Here is the PDF of the insturctions:
http://www.bmracing.com/bmracing/installation_instruction/9500475-08.pdf
Maybe this will shed some light.
Thanks all!
JC
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Ray Buck <rbuck@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
It could depend on whether he had a normally open or
normally closed 4th gear switch, I'd think. If it
was a normally closed switch, it could be grounding the
solenoid any time it's out of 1st gear, causing it to lock
in 2nd and 3rd, then unlock in 4th. Why it worked the first
time and why the switch didn't kill it is beyond me. I'd
THINK that the switch should prevent the +12v from being
applied to the hot side of the solenoid. But if it only
prevents the kit from applying a ground, then the ground
could be coming from the 4th gear switch.
r
On 12/4/2010 6:50 PM, Robert Adams wrote:
Well you don't have the valve
body controlled lockup. I have never heard anything
say anything about removing a spring in the tcc
valve train. Just one valve and it's a long spool
valve in the valve body which the TCC solenoid goes
up against.
As for the solenoid the TCC is
a two wire on your Monte.
If it feels like it's
locking up press the brake just enough to get the
brake lights to come on. This will cut power to the
solenoid. If it's still locked up then there is
something wrong internally. Either a bad TCC
solenoid worn TCC valve etc.
With any TCC not
unlocking with a 2004r you can first try to replace
the solenoid. If the problem is still there then the
TCC valve bore is worn and the solenoid can't
exhaust enough fluid and some of it ends up going to
the TCC and causing it to lockup. Worn TCC valves
are very common on 2004rs and 700r4s. There is a
replacement valve with a teflon seal that fixes it.
I think I still have one. Often a new TCC solenoid
bandaids the problem because it is made to exhaust
more fluid than the stock one.
So... Many times the stock
solenoid works just fine it's actually the valve
leaking too much fluid and the new design solenoid
fixes it (sort of).
Robert Adams
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:32
PM, John Christensen <johncgg@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Chris sent the lockup
kit for the Monte and I installed it today. Tom
came over and we took it for a test drive.
At first it seemed to work as advertised. It
locked up at the speed when the red LED turned to
green. After driving a bit, and coming to a stop,
it seemed to stay locked up. Then it was jumping
in and out of lock. Even at 2nd and third gear.
Something isn't right with it. There is an on/off
switch on the unit. Pushing that to off didn't
unlock it. What was odd, was that it would be
unlocked, then lock in the lower gear. So it isn't
stuck on, it is getting a completed circuit
somehow, when it is not intended.
I am thinking there are several things that could
be causing this. In the instructions, it talks
about a spring that needs to be removed in the
valve body. This is for early models (before 89)
that have the valve body controlled lock up.
Anyone know about this? In the text, it mentions:
Custom transmissioninstallations utilizing early
models with valve body controlled lockup speed may
requite some modification to operate correctly.
locate the converter clutch valve train in the
valve boday. Deactivate the converter clutch shift
valve by trmoving the spring holding the valve
train in the OFF position. This will allow the
converter clutch shift valve to move to the ON
position, and ensure that control pressure is
always available at the converter clutch apply
valve after the first gear shift. It may also be
necessary to remove the pan to identify which kind
of solenoid and wiring sceme is used on your
particular unit.
It also says there are 2 types of solenoids, one
wire and 2 wire. The one wire needs only the + to
go to the pin A. Where A is + and D is ground (I
grounded the D pin). So maybe if i lift the ground
on the case, it will work. Looks like I need to
get in the pan to find out. I may have a picture
of it when it was open and upside down on the
bench. I'll have to check.
I spoke to Ray on the phone, and he was suggesting
that the 4th gear switch internally could be a
type that is either normally open, or normally
closed. Because the kit has a wire on the 4 pin
connector that goes to a ground on the case, I am
wondering if that is a conflict, and may be
causing it to engage in the lower gears. I haven't
tried it without the ground wire hooked up.
I was unable to get together with B&M tech
support. It's Monday through Friday. Next stop is
the tech support on the web site. Tom offerd the
lift at the school on Sunday, but I want to
research it before tearing in to the pan.
At least I know the lockup works. I don't think it
is sticking, because it is sort of randomly
engaging in 2nd and third when it has already
disengaged. It is also locking with the LED
showing red. So Ray may have something there on
the grounding conflict.
Just wanted to run this past everyone. I have
wired the same kit on the 350C of the El Camino
before going back to computer control, and it
worked flawlessly for years. I have a feeling it
is the ground on the case, or the spring in the
valve body. I'll get it sorted out eventually.
That was the automotive therapy for today.
JC
---
John Christensen
1984 El Camino "Elkenstein" 350 TBI
NECOA #042 http://www.myelcamino.net
Saint Charles, IL
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