Hi All
I'd like to add something to this thread:
1. Illness is like a messenger. Thinking in terms of cure or healing hasn't
been fulfilling all spectrum. I rememeber from Hellinger's teaching that
illness has its place in system and it should be acknowledged and given a
respect. If we would miss it, we would stick an illness to the suffering
person and this is turning to other space.
2. Schizophrenia is like a big bag full of illnesses (some practicioners in
psychiatry realm say that every patient with schizophrenia is another case
of specific illness - extreme view but useful to have wider perspective).
Remembering it helps me always understand more and don't miss individual's
perspective.
I had patients, in private pracice as psychotherapist, who had this
diagnosis and I achieved with them full remission which means (in terms of
contemporary psychiatric paradigm) that they had no schizophrenia. It
doesn't matter if this was misdiagnosed or paradigm is not correct; they had
massive systemic entanglements, and we were lucky to give a space to relieve
in psychotherapy process (it wasn't classical constellation but systemic
work with constellation way of thinking).
I fully agree with Carolyn, that we should be very careful and we should be
aware with WHAT we are working.
I'd like to say also that I don't think labelling (like "I had a
schizophrenic client") is helping us to understand. I'd prefere to read what
was a nature of someone's suffering.
Regards
--
Hania Moser, MPsych.
*Growth does not come from striving to be a better person. Growth comes from
allowing your ego's story to drop away. (author unknown)*
2010/7/13 Stephen Campbell <coachuno@xxxxxxxxx>
Dear Ed and all,
I respect your professional opinion and I think the key word in your note
is
*diagnosed*. There is such a drive to catalog and pigeonhole a patient that
I believe there are numerous cases of misdiagnosis because the presenting
symptoms approximate a given condition. I also think that the terms cure
and
heal are used unconsciously. The first definition of *cure* is: relieve (a
person or animal) of the symptoms of a disease or condition and allopathic
medicine does just that. It relieves the symptoms with either drugs or
surgery but it quite seldom deals with the cause of the condition in the
first place. *Heal* is defined as: cause (a wound, injury, or person) to
become sound or healthy again. I am certain that with your vast experience
in this work that you have experienced this with people who have been
subjects of a constellation you have facilitated.
So, I ask you to consider that healing does occur from this work. To what
degree is obviously subjective. From what I have read in earlier posts by
Moira, Marta, Carolyn,Dee and my own personal experience the person
diagnosed with this condition has shown improvement varying from moderate
to
significant. I can say that the young man I represented is as normal as any
of us can get. I interact with him on a frequent basis and our professional
relationship is that of a life coach not a therapist. This person does not
manifest any of the classical symptoms of schizophrenia as i know them.
What I am learning and trust I will continue to deepen my understanding is
that there is an element of "magic" in this work. There is something that I
can not explain when you reorder the heirachy in a family and the diagnosed
symptoms in two distinct cases of lupus disappear; or persistent headaches
terminate at the end of a constellation and eleven days later in a brain
scan the tumor which was nominated as the cause of the severe headaches is
no longer detectable. I call these healings. As a consequence, I work from
the premise that anything is possible with this work. And I am not naive to
think that it is a panacea for all that ails the human race or our beloved
planet. I do believe that any subject that experiences an ecologically
facilitated constellation will be a different person better suited to find
their true self following participation in a constellation.
Fondly,
Stephen
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 16:33, ed lynch <breakers2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
40cyo.com.pe>>
Dear All,
I seriously doubt that systemic constellations heal or cure a clearly
diagnosed schizophrenia
Ed Lynch
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:13 PM, <jprincipe@xxxxxxxxxx<jprincipe%
wrote:soul)
Dear all:
I'm agree with Carloyn about the care we must to keep in mind (and
"Hellingerworking with "mental diseases".heard
Sometime -in the middle of my training to become a Facilitator- I've
a very experienced Facilitator from Argentina something like:
andcomes and choose a person with schizophrenia because he is Hellinger
he40yahoogroups.com>
can do it; but when the seminar ends, we have to deal with comsequencesin
the system of pacients without family support"
Warmly,
Julio
Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar
-----Original Message-----
From: "Carolyn Zahner" <cpzahner@xxxxxxxxxxxx <cpzahner%40cinci.rr.com
Sender: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%
> > To: <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:00:25
40yahoogroups.com>
40yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%
CT.Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Constellations and schizophrenia.
Dear Galina et all,
Thank you for this thread. I am very grateful to the many teachers on
group)and
I am a psychotherapist from Cincinnati, Ohio, USA. I have worked with
people displaying psychotic features (hallucinations and/or delusions)
their families for 30 years. I have always worked from a systemicapproach
and have been applying Systemic Constellation Work (individual and
toallow
my work for about 7 years. I am very careful about whether or not I
isthe psychotic individual to participate in a group. I only allow
participation if the person is exhibiting strong organized thought and
years.well grounded in consensus reality at the time. Additionally, they haveto
have strong family support and safety. The family members must beinvolved
and understand the process.
I have been working with a family (father, mother, daughter) for 4
TheAt the time I became involved, both the 72 year old mother, and the 49
years old daughter were severely mentally ill. Both were drugged into
non-functional stupor in efforts to hold their hallucinations at bay.
constellationmother had just recently been hospitalized. The 74 father, the totalwas
caretaker of both his wife and daughter, was ready to collapse.
Over the past 4 years, they have attended a group where a constellation
set up for them. Another time, per their request, we did a
inopportunity
group on their behalf (they were not present). I also had the
toin
take their case into supervision at Bernreid '06. Profound movement has
occurred following each piece of work. I have also used constellation
theBoth
individual setting, most often with mother and father together anddaughter
individually. The group work and the individual work continually informand
unfold in a complementary and progressive manner.moved
Both mother and daughter have made extraordinary improvements. They are
now on very little medication. The 53 year old daughter has recently
out of her parents' home for the first time, is holding a full time joband
participating in a CET (cognitive enhancement therapy) program to "wakeup"
her mental functioning again. The 76 year old mother is taking artclasses
and even showing and selling her work, as well as, taking Thai Chi.
soulare doing extremely well. The father has also manifested extreme changeEntering
regarding his participation in this system.
I experience Constellations as one way to offer a space in which the
alternative reality of the psychotic individual can find its place and
meaning within the consensus reality of the family (and culture).
a space where all realities are able to exist can result in a family
systemicgiving its permission for movement to ease the suffering. From a
manifestationsapproach, I ask:
1. How are the psychotic features trying to aid the individual and the
system to which s/he belongs?
2. How can the individual and/or family move to allow the
towithin
be experienced in different form, integrated and/or released?
Like dreams, we can find the wisdom in the images and experiences
tothe alternate reality of the psychotic experience and how they connect
andthe consensus reality of the family/culture.
As in all approaches, including Constellation Work, the deeper wisdom
anyprocess of the individual and the family soul determines how much, if
be"improvement" occurs. From what I have experienced, Constellations can
> > To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%an invaluable tool in restoring healthful functioning to the psycchoticmembers.
individual and/or increasing peace and understanding for the family
Best Regards,
Carolyn Zahner
Carolyn Zahner, MSW, LISW, Inc
513-697-0260
www.carolynzahner.com
11223 Cornell Park Drive, Suite 402
Cincinnati, Ohio 45242
----- Original Message -----
From: ion bucur
40yahoogroups.com>
mother(50Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Constellations and schizophrenia.
Hi Galina,
I have participated to several workshops where a schizophrenic
whenyears old) and her sun were participating too. After two workshops no
improvement were evident, except the fact that after the first time,
Itshe could not do any work at all, was very closed, in the second wasit
designated to represent somebody s wife. In the constellation and after
she behave like a schizophrenic, without being able to make distinction
between contellation and the real situation, between her and her role.
wasseemed that the things got worse.sun
But, after the third workshop, which lasted one week, and involved her
and her daughter in law, the very spectacular improvement appeared. She
became communicative, open and for the first time after one year she
knewsmiling and she was adequate. For the people that had known her, and
help,how is schizophrenia perceived in psychiatry, this was like a miracle.her
What happened in that workshop? When she worked, the facilitator asked
to choose 15 participants to represent her ancestors(She did not knowsomething
anything about a murder or something like that in her family. If
occured it was totaly covered, secret). She asked her ancestors for
ahonoured them, and some of them react very clear and strong.
In that night we saw her for the first time smiling, and we experience
40gmail.com>>strong feeling of humble.
When I remember that I feel the same, I feel humbling.
Ion Bucur
Consultant
Signum Artis
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Stephen Campbell <coachuno@xxxxxxxxx<coachuno%
wrote:40yahoogroups.com>
From: Stephen Campbell <coachuno@xxxxxxxxx <coachuno%40gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Constellations and schizophrenia.
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<ConstellationTalk%
> > Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 1:37 AM
schizophrenia.
Galina,
I have worked and participated in constellations involving
weOne of the most memorable was one in which I represented the youngreported
schizophrenic. Several months later I ran into his mother and she
significant improvement. A little over a year and half after the
Constellation a young man called to make an appointment with me. When
Hemet
in my offices and in the brief interview I realized this was the young
man
that I had represented and I can report that he has no vestiges of the
condition. I am not a psychiatrist; but, I have had considerable
experience
working with mental conditions and working with him on life and work
issues
I am clear that his current behaviors are not that of a schizophrenic.
Isubsequently mentioned that he has gotten a clean bill of health from
licensed professionals.
Having facilitated several constellations involving schizophrenics what
<galinat%40dslextreme.com>have learned is that the schizophrenic is entangled with a murder thatthe
occurred between 4-7 generations back and the schizophrenic represents
two excluded persons: the perpetrator and the victim.
Trust this information is of use to you.
Fondly,
Stephen
STEPHEN CAMPBELL
SYSTEMIC CONSTELLATION FACILITATOR / CONSTELADOR SISTÉMICO
MA, R.SC.P., MPNLP (HEALTH), ND (CANDIDATE)
904.430.0248
213-985-2368
51.1.447.6652
51.1.995.512.315
COACHUNO@xxxxxxxxx <COACHUNO%40GMAIL.COM <http://40gmail.com/>>
SKYPE: ELCOACHUNO
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:33, Galina Thomas <galinat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
his/herworking
wrote:
Hi, everybody,
I have a question about schizophrenia. Has anyone had experience
with schizophrenia (especially not directly with a patient, but
07/10/10relatives). Are there known cases of improvement as a result of
Constellations?
Thank you for any information!
Galina Thomas
MFT Trainee, Los Angeles, California
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