Miriam,
Anyone can walk into Walmart and purchase Plan B birth control for $4 without a
prescription. No script needed for spermicides. Or condoms. Get a script and
you can purchase the pill for $4.00 at Walmart. I don't see birth control is
restricted.
The Right to Life group is specialized but the Catholic Church is against
capital punishment, war, capitalism, and consumerism.
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 7:20 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
I overstated, but yes, I knew that not everyone in the organization protests in
front of clinics and not everyone who opposes abortion, is a member of the
organization. However, there are certainly political attempts to restrict birth
control right now, and there have been, for the past several years. The Supreme
Court supported one of them in a recent decision. I also find it ironic that
people who are concerned about the lives of unborn babies, take no position on
capital punishment. And I would also like to add that sometimes, what is
written down as official policy, may not be actual policy.
Miriam
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MARY CONVY
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 6:53 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Well Miriam, I should have added that any one or any group (since we are social
creatures) can misuse any social institution. But I hold to account the flawed
people and not the core of the world's religions, as I posted ten common core
beliefs in all religions.
Your bring up Right to Life people and say the quote normally unquote protest
clinics and confront women. Please read the following:
National Right to Life Committee
The National Right to Life Committee (NRLC) is a nonprofit organization that
seeks to end legalized
Abortion<http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/abortion> in the United
States. Founded in 1973, following the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Roe v.
Wade<http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Roe+v.+Wade>, 410 U.S. 113,
93 S. Ct. 705, 35 L. Ed. 2d 147 (1973), which held that women had a
constitutional right to abortion, the NRLC has become the leading antiabortion
organization in the United States. It has more than 7 million members, with
3,000 local chapters and 50 state affiliates. It is headquartered in
Washington, D.C., and has an annual budget of more than $9 million. The
National Right to Life News, a biweekly newsletter, has a circulation of
135,000.
From its inception, the NRLC has sought the passage of a constitutional
amendment banning abortion. Though this effort has not been successful, the
NRLC has played an important role in state and federal legislation regulating
and restricting abortion, and has been instrumental in restricting government
funding of abortions to poor women. The NRLC has a Political Action
Committee<http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Political+Action+Committee>
that endorses and campaigns for candidates who support its agenda, which
includes opposition to some forms of Birth
Control<http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Birth+Control> as well as
physician-assisted suicide. The committee states that it does not take a
position on issues such as contraception, sex education, Capital
Punishment<http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/capital+punishment>,
and national defense.
So Miriam, you will note there are seven million members of the national life
organization. I would contend they all do not normally, as you said, protest
at clinics. I would guess a very small percentage does and then the far
radical groups are even a smaller number. This is not to take a position on
the organization itself but to illustrate our reality is based on many of our
biases. Note they also object to SOME forms of birth control, not all. Would
you have guessed that? It takes no position on sex education, capital
punishment or national defense. Bet you wouldn't have thought that either.
Our society is way too anxious to have an us v. them, all or nothing, very
bellicose dialog. That will be our down fall. Both political parties have
taken their corners to use a boxing analogy and has left the gaping middle ring
for a Trump to raise his arm in victory. I read recently an article by a
leader of the DNC who proclaimed, if you don't believe in abortion we don't
want you in our party. And over the years, indeed, much to their detriment,
the Democrats have lost the conservative on some issue but generally very
socially liberal Catholic who helped JFK win office. We have to start
embracing diversity within our own groups, true diversity in thought and ideas,
not only race or religion.
________________________________
From:
blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:01 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Mary,
Yes, that’s true. But it isn’t just one individual. The novel follows one
individual, but it also talks about a real group called, “The Army of God”,
and members of this group have, in fact, murdered abortion providers. They do
so in the belief that they are saving the lives of unborn babies. The people
who belong to “Right To Life” groups are usually Evangelical Christians and
very conservative Catholics and normally, they protest in front of clinics
where abortions are performed and they attempt to approach individual women who
are about to enter the clinics and try to convince them not to do so. But in
these groups, there are some even more extreme people who believe that killing
doctors who provide abortions, is justified. Every religion has extreme sects
and in each of these are even more extreme fringe groups, and additionally,
there are individuals in every religion who are mentally ill and whose illness
causes them to misconstrue religious teaching. The character in the book I’m
reading, does have emotional problems which caused him to be attracted to the
people who advocated killing abortion providers. But in reality, when one tries
to speak objectively about these issues, it becomes very difficult to separate
out religious faith from pathology in some cases. Let me hasten to tell you
something about me because you are new to this list and don’t know me. I’m a
retired social worker and when I attended social work school a very long time
ago, I did have to learn a good deal about psychology and human behavior. I
suppose that the other thing you should know about me is that my background is
Jewish, but I’m a secular person and the most accurate description of my
personal beliefs of philosophy would be “secular humanism”. But that’s my own
personal philosophy and I recognize that people experience reality in a variety
of ways.
Miriam
From:
blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MARY CONVY
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 3:31 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
Miriam,
Any social institution can be mis-used by any one of the millions of flawed
humans that follow it. In this case the murderer took the religious principal
of holding sacred life and polluted it with his own mental instability.
________________________________
From:
blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
on behalf of Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 12:14 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
I'm reading a really long, ponderous novel by Joyce Carol Oates called A Book
Of Martyrs. Well, Joyce Carol Oates tends to write in a ponderous manner. But
if one can manage to get through it, the book has a lot to say. It's about the
assassination of a doctor who works in women's centers in the mid west and who,
among other medical services, provides abortions. The book describes the man
who murdered the doctor and the man's family, including their religious
beliefs, psychological motivations, and socio-economic status. It also
describes the doctor, his family, and the details of their lives and beliefs.
This is really a picture of the great divide in our society, in terms of
educational status and cultural identity and although it has something to do
with social class, it is not related to the way in which people on this list
and in typical political discourse, refer to class. There really seems to be no
meeting ground because the basic assumptions of these two groups are so
different. But in relation to our discussion about folks feeling so sure that
they are right while people with the opposite view are wrong, in the story, the
man who is convinced that killing an abortion provider is what Jesus wants him
to do, has no concern as to what the consequences of his act will be for his
wife and children. On the other side of the coin, the doctor who performs
abortions, is aware that his life is in danger. Other abortion providers have
been killed. His wife is begging him to stop doing this work because she's
afraid that he, too, will be killed and he has already provided this service
for many years. But he feels that his skills are badly needed and that the time
has not yet arrived for him to stop. In other words, he too, is being called to
do what he does and he does not consider the consequences to his wife and
children. In the end, both men die and their families are permanently damaged.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From:
blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl Jarvis
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 11:11 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
"Undisclosed-Recipient:,"@freelists.org<mailto:%22Undisclosed-Recipient:,%22@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Jesus, Christmas and Donald Trump for evangelists
There is nothing so futile as an exercise in futility.
And once again we prove it. There are two hard and true facts in any
discussion of this nature. 1. I am right!
2. Everyone else is wrong!
Each of us, regardless of our basic Beliefs, become a Missionary, setting out
to demonstrate the "rightnous" of our Belief, and the "wrongness" of everyone
else. Sometimes we are gentle in our attack on everyone else, and sometimes we
become rather nasty. But always it is from the position of each of us being
Right, and everyone else, Wrong!
And when we are not defending our Belief, by attacking all others, we are
wondering why people can't seem to get along.
Now I'm not a Believer any longer. My reason for leaving the Faith was due to
this very demonstration. I awoke from a deep dream one morning and asked
myself, "Self! What sort of Almighty Creator would allow Humans to gather in
little self righteous groups and spend thousands of years fighting each other?
But that's me, and I came to my present place in thought in my own way and in
my own time. To my simple mind, that is the only way each of us will resolve
this discussion. And then it will not matter what others believe, just so long
as they do not believe that they are obligated to kill me if I do not believe
as they do.
Carl Jarvis
On 10/8/17, Bob <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ebob824@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hello. This is Bob Evans. I'm the author of the editorial attached below.
Please, read, fathom and if you wish, interact.
Bob Evans
______
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