I don't know if you would call this a race or not, but I remember
reading an article once about Hungarian-Americans by an author who was
not one of them and he said that they were often calling each other
bo-hunks and that the author did not feel free to do the same. I doubt
that this is consistent from one Hungarian-American community to another
though. There is not the coherent culture among Hungarian-Americans
caused by a common oppression and separation from the mainstream
culture. As for the teacher who was fired for teaching the word
niggardly, I must have missed that one, but I am reminded of an incident
when I was in high school. I attended an all white high school, but
there was a teacher who was Black. I don't remember the nature of the
communication, but a student delivered a message from another teacher to
that teacher. The Black teacher said, "Just tell him I'm niggardly." I
suppose you can guess how that message ended up being delivered.
On 10/25/2017 8:53 AM, MARY CONVY wrote:
I know of no other insulting word that refers to a race that can be used freely by the race, but is an absolute anathema if used by anyone else. Do you? And I found if horrible that a teacher in the south was fired for teaching as a vocabulary word niggardly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:31 PM
*To:* MARY CONVY
*Subject:* Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Donald Trump
I was unaware of the different meanings of the two spellings in Middle English, but it does indicate that the original meaning of to strike was retained at that time for the f u c k spelling. As for the f u c k e spelling, I am not surprised that this spelling was around at the time. It just looks very Middle English. As for Lenny Bruce, he probably did have the right idea. Look at what homosexuals have done with denigrating words like queer or faggot. This is not universal among gay people, but very largely they have refused to take offense at those epithets and so have taken a lot of the effect out of them. You call someone a queer nowadays and a likely response is, I sure am; how about you? The same thing has not happened to the N word though. Yes, I am very aware that I just used the phrase N word after having repudiated the phrase F word. The reason I did that is exactly what I said about its use not having been ameliorated in effect like the word queer has. Black people do quite frequently use a variation of that word among themselves, niggah. Frequently white people ask why they can call themselves by that name and white people are not allowed to. The answer is that it is not the same word and that the failure to pronounce the final R makes it a different word that denotes affection. It strikes me, though, as just the same word pronounced in a southern accent or in the Black vernacular. As a white person, though, I would not dare call anyone that name no matter how careful I was to not pronounce the R. The mere fact that it was coming from a white person would most likely cause the listener to hear an R even if it was not there. If that word is ever to lose its impact the people who are denigrated by it have to refuse to be offended by it themselves. I am acquainted with a white woman who should have learned that through her own behavior, but I don't think she ever did learn her lesson. Somehow she came up with a private definition of the N word that was innocuous. I don't remember exactly how she defined it, but her definition was still a criticism of the person it was applied to, but had nothing to do with race. She then went around blithely using it. When someone objected she explained that it did not mean what everyone thought it meant and then offered her definition. Well, absolutely no one accepted her definition and she just kept getting herself in trouble. She just could not understand why she was getting the reactions she was getting. That is why I don't think she ever did learn her lesson. She, as a white woman, was attempting to ameliorate the impact of the word all by herself and she just could not do that no matter how hard she tried. I can't either and that is why I use the phrase N word. The impact of the word fuck is lessening on its own without any action from me at all. And, besides, given the various definitions of the word fuck I have never seen anything wrong with it in the first place whether it is considered forbidden or not. I still refrain from saying that someone fucked me over if they cheated me though. I think the word cheat conveys the meaning much better for one thing and for another thing, I really do not like any word having multiple definitions. Even if I have to accept that a word might mean various things in different contexts or even in the same context I want to keep those meanings at a minimum and I don't want to encourage the proliferation of definitions. The reason is that the more meanings a word has the more vague it becomes and sometimes it gets to the point that a word means so many things that it loses all meaning altogether. This is vagueness and interferes with communication.
On 10/24/2017 9:31 AM, MARY CONVY wrote:
Roger, That is another whole can of worms. In Middle English f u c k e was often used for sexual activity and f u c k was more like 'to beat up'. It would be that denotation that probably evolved into the meaning most people use it for today. If I say, I'm gonna fuck you up I am not proclaiming we will engage in sexual activity. Though when I was a smart ass teen and someone said, go fuck yourself, I would brightly respond, don't mind if I do. And as for Bob's point of the inappropriateness of the word, I am of the Lenny Bruce school of thought, words only have the power we give them and if we use it often it loses negative power. Do you think we can apply all this to nigger as we do fuck?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2017 9:46 PM
*To:* blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; MARY CONVY
*Subject:* Re: [blind-democracy] Re: Donald Trump
Chaucer was not the only one. Let's not call it the F word either. The word is fuck. And I will ask what is so inappropriate about it? I am not saying that it is not used inappropriately. It's common use as an expletive might be considered inappropriate. Its usage as a verb meaning to cheat someone might also be inappropriate. I say that because the more meanings a word has the less it really means at all. Multiple meanings makes it a vague word. However, I would not call the word fuck inappropriate in itself. The word originated in a Germanic language that evolved into the English language and I think its original meaning was to strike. I don't know how it transformed into a word denoting sexual acts from that origin, but any meaning it had in relation to striking anything is obsolete anyway. But no one considered it an inappropriate word either before or after that transformation. What made it unrespectable was the Norman conquest in 1066. Before that time the people of England were known as the Anglo-Saxons and were descendants of a previous conquest about 500 years before when they were separate ethnicities, the Angles and the Saxons. By the time of the Norman conquest, though, they were speaking a single language known as Anglo-Saxonish or Old English. Old English was a rather monosyllabic language. Then the Normans crossed the English Channel and conquered the Anglo-Saxons and immediately proceeded to try their best to wipe out Anglo-Saxon culture, including the language. Surviving records show that the normans had particular contempt for the speech of the Anglo-Saxons. William - also known as William the conquerer - wrote himself that their speech sounded like the barking of dogs. Well, the Normans were ultimately unable to wipe out Old English, but they had a profound effect on it. They usshered in a new language known as Middle English. Interestingly enough, the Normandish language did not survive except in the effects that it had on the English language. The Normandish language was a descendant of Latin and very closely related to French and in contrast to Old English it was more polysyllabic. Everything about the Anglo-Saxons was held in contempt and words referring to body parts or functions seemed to gain special contempt. You can just about identify which words had an Anglo-Saxon origin and which had a Latin origin based on the number of syllables and how respectable they are. You have the Old English arse, later devolving into ass and the Latin originated buttocks. You have the Old English shit and the Latin originated defecate. You have snot versus mucous. You have fuck and copulate. You have piss and urinate. You have fart and flatulate. The list goes on. It even extends to words that are not particularly unrespectabble. Isn't canine thought of as a bit more sophisticated than dog? The Norman conquest still effects the British style of English in other ways. The accents of the British upper class reflects its Norman origins and the less respectable accents like Cockney are reflections of Anglo-Saxon origins. So when you denigrate Anglo-Saxon monosyllables you are essentially denigrating the English people of before 1066 and showing support for their conquerers. I see nothing wrong with using the language of an oppressed people.
On 10/23/2017 8:25 AM, MARY CONVY wrote:
Bob, Since you are a lover of words but complain about Americans' use of the F word, remember Chaucer used it liberally in his writing, now esteemed as classic literature.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Bob <ebob824@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Sunday, October 22, 2017 10:33 PM
*To:* American
*Subject:* [blind-democracy] Donald Trump
Through his nearly nine months of precarious presidentship, Donald Trump
flunked to unify his nation as allegedly he said he will. He iniquitously
chiselled lay people with his abhorrent rhetoric. He is an abominable
scoundrel, a dire misanthrope. The problem as I stated on multiple occasions
isn't Trump alone. Those who happily brought him to oval office are to
immensely be oppugned and reprobated. So, who are they? Donald Trump is
southern evangelists messiah. Despite his unworthiest character, southern
evangelists are his top protagonists. They relentlessly endorse him. So, why
are they backing him? Basically, because his agenda destines to serve their
fractioning theme. His rhetoric deems to be intemperately despicable. He
began as New York’s youngest real estate agent and ended up topping
Washington’s capitol. During his ardent rallies, he conveyed pestilently
sickening remarks. As he appeals to fright, doubt and racial disparity, he
precisely fulfills the classical definition of a partisan. Facts aren’t
necessarily crucial to him. As long as spouting is useful, cogency doesn’t
matter to this cantankerous figure. Trump’s call for a total Muslim ban was
just the beginning of unveiling America’s actual perception toward Muslims.
Many white Protestants spatted for that statement. Donald Trump is a
prophecy fulfillment for many evangelists. Therefore, they just see him the
nation’s distinct rescuer. As you could see, he’s gravely besieged by
generals. He isn’t more than just a direly warmonger. Consequently, defiance
is absolutely mandatory upon us. I personally repealed an educational
journey to the United States. My decision is primarily based on
ostracisation temperament and dignity retainment intent. I rather intend to
submit immigration application form to Canada. I just await until my Resume
meets with their basic requirements. Global leadership must instantly be
shifted over to a genuinely applicable and competent entity. The United
States is immensely ineligible for this entitlement. Over the past decade,
the United States proved to the world its perfect unfitness to act as the
free world leader. Apart from americanisation, they know nothing. Apart from
dating, devouring and swearing, their culture signifies nothing farther.
Therefore, their heritage is constantly trolled and derided. I urge English
speaking nations to expose what Americanism is.
American English is essentially based on vernacular language. Their
phrases are ordinarily foreshortened. Furthermore, many Americans
often use inappropriate expressions in their regular conversations. So
for instance, you will find many Americans use a disdainful term that
starts with F euphemistically. In American culture, it typically
utters an exclamation of annoyance. This inappropriate expression is
commonly used in American colloquial rhetoric. Those are the ones who
cheered and warmly spatted for Donald Trump. Despite its eminent status, the
United States resembles a perfectly ethical bankruptcy. Racial tense is the
least of America's longstanding crises. Despite Abraham Lincoln's ostensible
termination of slavery, the core of the crisis still remains. He may have
coped with the symptom but unfortunately, he disposed the actual disease.
Slavery was the symptom and racism is the disease. Faith was a major
campaign prerequisite for Donald Trump, in addition to racial disparity.
Whether you believe he is a sincere Christian or not, middle class southern
evangelists were the first who walked to the Donald. White Christian America
is not the proper place for devout Muslims. Pia, you may not prefer this
but, let us confront with bitter facts. It is merely the place of
disruption, persecution, exercising bigotry and corporate expatriation.
Donald Trump sold counterfeit patriotism to cretin charlies. Finally,
despite my political orientation, I am saddened and depressed for any
innocent souls that have been lost here in Cairo. Unfortunately, we became
just numb to such terrible incidents. Therefore, I determined to just
dismiss looking at news headlines a while ago. But to my friends out there,
I am okay. Pia, thank you again for asking about me. I really appreciate
your sincere concern. I just dismiss looking at depressive news stories. I
destine to keep my spirit encouraged, to contribute positively and perform
productively at work.
Thank you for reading, Bob
