Roger,
Since I am less than perfect, I would not assume to give you my
worldly advice on how better to present yourself.
What I can do is to accept your posts in the manner you present them.
As I try to do with every contributor on this very valuable list.
Some time back, when I was on a couple of other lists, I offended
several folks with my views on God and religion. In attempting to
"enlighten" them, I wrote directly and expressed my honest views.
This they believed to be a personal attack. Several of them dropped
off the lists, and others had me blocked.
I gave considerable thought to how I presented my beliefs. I found
that I could say what I needed to say without being confrontational,
or sounding as if I had the final true word. Maybe I do a better job
of it now, but those whom I offended will always remain upset with me.
And you can bet I never enlightened them at all.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/28/16, Roger Loran Bailey <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Actually, I really don't see that there is a lot of name calling on this
list at all. The attitude that usually accompanies name calling is
entirely too common though and I am the most frequent target. To site a
couple of recent examples, someone mentions that she does not know what
art is. I step in to explain it expecting that would be the end of it.
To my total surprise, though, I receive a barrage of attacks just
because I tried to impart a piece of simple information. Then, more
recently, I was trying to explain a concept. Suddenly I am accused of
throwing insults when insulting anyone was the furthest thing from my
mind. Those are just two examples, but the same kind of thing has
happened over and over. Even if name calling is not technically involved
it is still an unpleasant experience to have to contend with when I was
involving myself in the pleasant experience of explaining concepts and
sharing knowledge. To be honest, when one of those hostile barrages
breaks out I start feeling a sense of dread at the prospect of checking
my email. And, really, none of us should feel dread at participating in
this list.
On 3/27/2016 12:52 AM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
Miriam and All,
We have been trained for many generations, to fight with insults
rather than with reason. Indeed, we raise our young mostly by
negative reinforcement. A slap here and a scream of anger over there.
We spank, shake, and Punish our children into adulthood, and then
wonder why the world is going to Hell in a hand basket. And we
interact with our fellow travelers on Planet Earth in the same manner,
shouting across make believe borders, shooting one another, and
reducing those who do not agree with us, as inhuman monsters who must
be removed from the face of Earth.
On balance, I think that here on the Blind Democracy list, we do a far
better job of expressing our positions. Sure, we do tend to get
lathered up from time to time, but for the most part we have been in
the business of attempting to pass helpful information along. When
someone turns to name calling in order to express disagreement with
something one of us posts, or an article that we feel is informative,
they are exposing their juvenile side. Rather than get upset, since
the name calling has no bearing upon us, we need to always make an
effort to explain just how counter productive this behavior is.
I recall reading, long ago and in another life, that it is easy to
love the lovely, but very difficult to love the unlovely. But if we
are ever to make a new and better world, we will need to learn to lead
and to teach with love and positive reinforcement.
Carl Jarvis
On 3/26/16, Frank Ventura <frank.ventura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Miriam, no no no that is what I meant. When you say something like x y
and z
have different political views then you have already opened that can of
worms and they are crawling out.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:08 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Discussions on the list, was Trump and
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters
No because that's precisely the kind of discussion my post was objecting
to.
The purpose of this list, as I understand it, is not to comment on other
list members political viewpoints, religious viewpoints, lifestyles, or
behavior. The purpose of the list is to discuss issues.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 9:33 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Discussions on the list, was Trump and
Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His
Youthful Supporters
Miriam, in your email below you said that Ted, Roger and I have three
different political points of view. Just for my own edification can you
describe each one. No challenge or digging up dirt here just natural
curiosity.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Miriam Vieni
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 4:08 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Discussions on the list, was Trump and
Clinton's
Big Night Poses Hard Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful
Supporters
First of all, if, like Alice, everyone can easily find the articles they
wish to read, the ones that are not usually from mainstream sources,
then
there's no reason for any of us to post to this list anymore. When I
post,
it's because I'd like to share material that I think is interesting.
Often,
the articles have contradictory opinions or information.
Ssecond: Discussing opinions, disagreeing, bringing up counter arguments
is
what we're all about. But is upsetting and objectionable, are personal
attacks. And apparently, when people are responsible for making them,
they
deny the responsibility. I tend to get into a lot of difficulty on this
list
because I'm very articulate about my feelings and opinions and I
suppose,
when I state them, it may sound as if I think I'm stating the truth as
passed down from God to me, to be communicated to everyone else. But
that
isn't what I mean to do. I just mean to say what I think and feel
because
this has been the only venue where I could safely do that without
disrupting
personal relationships with people in my life. But after my interchange
with
Frank, I began thinking about how people have described me when they
have
disagreed with what I've said. They haven't just disagreed. They have
used
words to describe the kind of person they think I am and the kind of
beliefs
or attitudes they think I have. Ted left the list, telling us that we
were
all, and this included everyone from Dick to Frank, including Charlie,
Joe,
Penny, me, and Roger, all Marxists. I think he used a word like
unredeemable
or some such thing. So I'm an unredeemable marxist. On the other hand,
Roger
has said I'm a Liberal which, from his point of view is an insult, that
I'm
therefore, an enemy of the working class, I suppose. Last night, Frank
said
that because I'm an older white person who is financially secure because
I
receive social security benefits which no one will take away, I'm willing
to
sacrifice the financial welfare of everyone else by allowing the
Republicans
to win the Presidential election. Well, he wasn't quite as concise as
that,
but that was the meaning of what he said. My point is that these three
people, who have very different political points of view from each
other,
but who, at one time or another disagreed with something I said, chose
to
put me in a political category and ascribe political beliefs and motives
to
me, none of which were accurate, but all of which were meant as an
insulting
rebuttal in place of clear arguments based on facts or the posting of
articles that might have made their points. So here on this tiny email
list
of blind people who consider themselves to be politically progressive
and
fair minded, we have difficulty dealing with differences of opinion in a
kind, humane, rational manner. No wonder we have candidates like Trump
and a
government, regardless of which party is in power, that is constantly at
war, trying to dominate the rest of the world. We cannot even keep the
peace
on Blind Democracy.
Miriam
________________________________
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alice Dampman
Humel
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:57 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Trump and Clinton's Big Night Poses Hard
Questions For Sanders Campaign and His Youthful Supporters
That's not entirely true at all. He has outlined plans for almost
everything
he has proposed.
Google, go to Sanders's website, check news reports from places like
Mother
Jones, Truthout, USUncut, Common Dreams, interviews on those Sunday
morning
TV shows, which I never get to listen to, CNN, ditto, since I don't get
it,
Democracy Now, The Young Turks, Bill Moyers, Addicting Info, Liberal
America, Occupy Democrats, Join the Coffee Party, The Other 98 Percent,
American News X, Occupy Wall Street, to get you started, haha.so you
see,
I've been busy, and I have to say to no one in particular, that I have
not
missed the squabbling and sniping that goes on on this list and that we
seem
incapable of solving, nor have I encountered such in other discussion
groups
I've been participating in.
And, like Joe, if it continues, I'm going back into hiding.yeah, I know,
who
cares? Just saying.
And Marsha, I know this is coming as part of a reply to you, but it of
course has nothing to do with you or anything you ever have said. OK?
.
On Mar 26, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Martian.Lady <martian.lady@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
HI
Unlike Hilary Bernie does not say what he will do. he says he will
do
his best to accomplish his goals.
Marsha
