Hi All,
Let's make sure it doesn't stir up any complaints for you Mayrie because
you are correct:
Publishers are free to send us whatever they wish. If they are lax on the
quality of their submissions it reflects on them as publishing houses but
it is beyond our control. However, in their defense, remember that they
are just learning how to do this also.
Bookshare adheres to a high standard. We do not want our submissions to
reflect poorly on publishers. Pagination is one of those elements that
must be absolutely perfect in order to serve our readership properly.
Scott Rains
Benetech Fellow, Bookshare Volunteer Department
________________________________________
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mayrie ReNae
[mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:09 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
Hi Sue,
At the risk of starting an icky unraveling thread, I would hazzard a guess
about why page numbers are required of us. They are important and helpful
to folks using books. I think that if it were an easy thing to insert them
into publisher quality books they'd be there too. It isn't that they aren't
important at all. I think it's just that there isn't a way to put them into
publisher quality books because the ISBN of those books applies to the
electronic file, which doesn't have pages, so inserting page numbers would
be impossible, because the electronic copy of the books doesn't have any.
We are required to insert page numbers because they are very helpful.
Publishers are not because it's kind of them to give us the books at all and
who wants to look a gift horse in the mouth, plus the reason I gave before,
electronic files don't have page numbers at all.
Does that make sense? Our books have page numbers, so we are asked to keep
them in. Electronic files of books don't have any and so, how can we know
where to put any?
I agree with you. I hope this doesn't stir up a string of complaints.
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 2:49 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
Hi Mayrie,
What you say makes sense, and I have never thought it was a lack of interest
or laziness. (smile) I was merely wondering why we are required to put in
page numbers now, since PQ books do not have them. If I uploaded a book
without page numbers it would be kicked back to the check-out page. I was
just curious as to why we are still required to insert page numbers. I do
hope this does not start a whole thread and stir up a hornet's nest.
(smile)
Sue S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
Hi Sue,
Perhaps I can make it clearer why PQ books do not have page numbers. It's
actually pretty simple, just not to fix. The PQ books are files sent by the
publisher to Bookshare for conversion to daisy and brf. These files are the
same files from which the publishers print books. Books only have page
numbers when they're printed. This is because the page size and print size
designated for a given print book are the things that tell where pages
should begin and end. The only way that publishers could provide page
numbers would be to scan a print book just as we do. Think of it this way.
In Word, your number of pages in a file is determined by the size of paper
that you use. Until Word knows what size of paper to expect, the page
numbers generated are only guesses. So, for a publisher to insert page
numbers in their files, the page size and print size of a book could never
be altered and all print copies would have to be the same, either large
print, hard cover, paperback, or trade paperback. The insertion of page
numbers into the electronic files as a part of the text as we provide them
as proofreaders would make it impossible for the publisher to produce more
than one version of a book without recreating the file for each different
kind of book.
I know it's annoying for us. But it isn't happening because anyone is lazy
or inconsiderate.
Have I just muddied the waters? Sorry if I have. Please ask if you have
more questions. At least this is my understanding of why the lack of page
numbers inPQ files exists. Maybe I'm wrong about thinking the way that I
do. If I am and someone else knows for certain, maybe they'll chime in and
correct me. In any case, I don't think that the lack of page numbers is a
result of anyone's lack of interest in having them.
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:39 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
Hi Mayrie,
I am seeing PQ books that do not have any page numbers at all, at least in
BRF files. Yet we are still asked to include them. I do not understand
this, although I still do as you do. (smile)
Sue S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
Hi there,
Please keep in mind that what I am going to tell you is supposed to be
obsolete information. In the past, a blank line was necessary before and
after both page numbers and chapter headings in order for Bookshare's
conversion tools to locate, and identify page numbers and chapter headings.
That is not supposed to be necessary any longer. However, I've seen books
produced after the tools were supposed to be able to handle the lack of
blank lines to identify page numbers and chapter headings for them which
have page numbers incorperated into the text of the book. What I don't
know, not having proofread the books that I've seen with this issue, is
whether or not there was in the rtf document any separation whether blank
line, or just a paragraph break between the page number and the text of the
book, or whether the tools glitched in processing. Because I can't know why
this happens, I choose to follow potentially antiquated procedures to be
certain that page numbers are not incorperated into the text of books. My
practise absolutely and positively causes no problems with books, so I am
safe in any case.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation. I hope it helps and allows you to
choose for yourself what practises you prefer to follow.
Please feel free to ask more questions if I've been unclear in any way.
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Holmes
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:17 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
This may be a newbie question, but what is meant by protecting page numbers
and chapter headings? What text would otherwise be vulnerable?
I'm asking this from the point of view of a proofreader. By the time the
contents gets to me, either the headings are there or they are not. Same
with page numbers. When I see the RTF, there isn't much I can do to those
except for ensuring they are on their own lines (page numbers).
Thanks for clarifying.
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 01:42:57PM -0700, Mayrie ReNae wrote:
Hi Robin,
This is just my opinion and my practise. I still protect all page
numbers and chapter headings. I'm not confident that the conversion
tools work as well as they should all of the time. They are supposed
to. Maybe they do, and maybe they don't. We're supposed to be able
to trust the tools. I prefer to take no chances. My only suggestion
is to experiment with a book by not protecting page numbers or chapter
headings and see what happens with it.
It's up to you, in essence.
Optional hyphens are the ones inserted when a word has been broken at
the end of a line in the book. I think that's right anyway.
Mayrie
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Van Lants
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:13 PM
To: Scott Rains; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] clarification on BKS manual
Hi,
I just re-read the volunteer manual to catch the updates. It was great
to see the section on unnecessary formatting that the RTF tool does
after submission. My question is, if the RTF tool takes out white
spaces, are we still encourged to protect page breaks, page numbers
and chapter headings with blank lines on either side? I do this
before I submit a scan (while I've checking that all pages made it
into the book), but I see no reference to doing this in the manual
anymore.
Also, what is an "optional hyphen" as referenced in the manual?
Thanks
Robin
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