Thanks for the thoughts on protecting pages, page numbers, and so forth. As a low vision scanner / proofreader, I also think it's helpful to keep doing, so I'll do my best to protect these elements when I submit scans, but won't stress if I think I've missed one.
For us to include page numbers at all is also really helpful in confirming in proofreading that we have all the pages and, if needed, to be able to find the correct page to look up and correct a scanning error. It certainly makes sense for us to be required to put those in. This conversation, though, helped me understand a comment a couple months ago about PQ books not having page breaks. I was wondering about that, but have not yet read a PQ
download. Robin----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey" <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 5:59 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual
As a matter of fact, for about the last year and a half I have been keeping track of the books I read at GoodReads.com. I try to match the edition if it is possible. There was one particular publisher quality book from Bookshare that I could not find on the Good Reads site by searching by ISBN, so I started looking for it by title and author. That brought up a number of editions, of course, so I then started examining each edition in order to match it. In that process I found one that matched the ISBN. It turned out to be the Kindle edition._ _ _"Freedom is always and exclusively freedom for the one who thinks differently." - Rosa LuxemburgThe Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press: http://www.pathfinderpress.com Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manualHi Sue,At the risk of starting an icky unraveling thread, I would hazzard a guess about why page numbers are required of us. They are important and helpful to folks using books. I think that if it were an easy thing to insert them into publisher quality books they'd be there too. It isn't that they aren't important at all. I think it's just that there isn't a way to put them intopublisher quality books because the ISBN of those books applies to theelectronic file, which doesn't have pages, so inserting page numbers wouldbe impossible, because the electronic copy of the books doesn't have any. We are required to insert page numbers because they are very helpful.Publishers are not because it's kind of them to give us the books at all and who wants to look a gift horse in the mouth, plus the reason I gave before,electronic files don't have page numbers at all.Does that make sense? Our books have page numbers, so we are asked to keep them in. Electronic files of books don't have any and so, how can we knowwhere to put any? I agree with you. I hope this doesn't stir up a string of complaints. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 2:49 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi Mayrie,What you say makes sense, and I have never thought it was a lack of interest or laziness. (smile) I was merely wondering why we are required to put inpage numbers now, since PQ books do not have them. If I uploaded a bookwithout page numbers it would be kicked back to the check-out page. I was just curious as to why we are still required to insert page numbers. I dohope this does not start a whole thread and stir up a hornet's nest. (smile) Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:18 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi Sue,Perhaps I can make it clearer why PQ books do not have page numbers. It's actually pretty simple, just not to fix. The PQ books are files sent by the publisher to Bookshare for conversion to daisy and brf. These files are thesame files from which the publishers print books. Books only have pagenumbers when they're printed. This is because the page size and print sizedesignated for a given print book are the things that tell where pages should begin and end. The only way that publishers could provide pagenumbers would be to scan a print book just as we do. Think of it this way. In Word, your number of pages in a file is determined by the size of paperthat you use. Until Word knows what size of paper to expect, the page numbers generated are only guesses. So, for a publisher to insert pagenumbers in their files, the page size and print size of a book could neverbe altered and all print copies would have to be the same, either large print, hard cover, paperback, or trade paperback. The insertion of pagenumbers into the electronic files as a part of the text as we provide them as proofreaders would make it impossible for the publisher to produce morethan one version of a book without recreating the file for each different kind of book.I know it's annoying for us. But it isn't happening because anyone is lazyor inconsiderate. Have I just muddied the waters? Sorry if I have. Please ask if you have more questions. At least this is my understanding of why the lack of page numbers inPQ files exists. Maybe I'm wrong about thinking the way that Ido. If I am and someone else knows for certain, maybe they'll chime in and correct me. In any case, I don't think that the lack of page numbers is aresult of anyone's lack of interest in having them. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:39 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi Mayrie,I am seeing PQ books that do not have any page numbers at all, at least inBRF files. Yet we are still asked to include them. I do not understand this, although I still do as you do. (smile) Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:10 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi there, Please keep in mind that what I am going to tell you is supposed to be obsolete information. In the past, a blank line was necessary before and after both page numbers and chapter headings in order for Bookshare'sconversion tools to locate, and identify page numbers and chapter headings. That is not supposed to be necessary any longer. However, I've seen booksproduced after the tools were supposed to be able to handle the lack of blank lines to identify page numbers and chapter headings for them which have page numbers incorperated into the text of the book. What I don't know, not having proofread the books that I've seen with this issue, is whether or not there was in the rtf document any separation whether blankline, or just a paragraph break between the page number and the text of the book, or whether the tools glitched in processing. Because I can't know whythis happens, I choose to follow potentially antiquated procedures to be certain that page numbers are not incorperated into the text of books. My practise absolutely and positively causes no problems with books, so I am safe in any case. Sorry for the long-winded explanation. I hope it helps and allows you to choose for yourself what practises you prefer to follow. Please feel free to ask more questions if I've been unclear in any way. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Holmes Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:17 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manualThis may be a newbie question, but what is meant by protecting page numbersand chapter headings? What text would otherwise be vulnerable? I'm asking this from the point of view of a proofreader. By the time the contents gets to me, either the headings are there or they are not. Samewith page numbers. When I see the RTF, there isn't much I can do to thoseexcept for ensuring they are on their own lines (page numbers). Thanks for clarifying. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 01:42:57PM -0700, Mayrie ReNae wrote:Hi Robin, This is just my opinion and my practise. I still protect all page numbers and chapter headings. I'm not confident that the conversion tools work as well as they should all of the time. They are supposed to. Maybe they do, and maybe they don't. We're supposed to be able to trust the tools. I prefer to take no chances. My only suggestion is to experiment with a book by not protecting page numbers or chapter headings and see what happens with it. It's up to you, in essence. Optional hyphens are the ones inserted when a word has been broken at the end of a line in the book. I think that's right anyway. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Van Lants Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:13 PM To: Scott Rains; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] clarification on BKS manual Hi, I just re-read the volunteer manual to catch the updates. It was great to see the section on unnecessary formatting that the RTF tool does after submission. My question is, if the RTF tool takes out white spaces, are we still encourged to protect page breaks, page numbers and chapter headings with blank lines on either side? I do this before I submit a scan (while I've checking that all pages made it into the book), but I see no reference to doing this in the manualanymore.Also, what is an "optional hyphen" as referenced in the manual? Thanks Robin __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5518 (20101009) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subjectline.To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. 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