Hi Mayrie, What you say makes sense, and I have never thought it was a lack of interest or laziness. (smile) I was merely wondering why we are required to put in page numbers now, since PQ books do not have them. If I uploaded a book without page numbers it would be kicked back to the check-out page. I was just curious as to why we are still required to insert page numbers. I do hope this does not start a whole thread and stir up a hornet's nest. (smile) Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:18 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi Sue, Perhaps I can make it clearer why PQ books do not have page numbers. It's actually pretty simple, just not to fix. The PQ books are files sent by the publisher to Bookshare for conversion to daisy and brf. These files are the same files from which the publishers print books. Books only have page numbers when they're printed. This is because the page size and print size designated for a given print book are the things that tell where pages should begin and end. The only way that publishers could provide page numbers would be to scan a print book just as we do. Think of it this way. In Word, your number of pages in a file is determined by the size of paper that you use. Until Word knows what size of paper to expect, the page numbers generated are only guesses. So, for a publisher to insert page numbers in their files, the page size and print size of a book could never be altered and all print copies would have to be the same, either large print, hard cover, paperback, or trade paperback. The insertion of page numbers into the electronic files as a part of the text as we provide them as proofreaders would make it impossible for the publisher to produce more than one version of a book without recreating the file for each different kind of book. I know it's annoying for us. But it isn't happening because anyone is lazy or inconsiderate. Have I just muddied the waters? Sorry if I have. Please ask if you have more questions. At least this is my understanding of why the lack of page numbers inPQ files exists. Maybe I'm wrong about thinking the way that I do. If I am and someone else knows for certain, maybe they'll chime in and correct me. In any case, I don't think that the lack of page numbers is a result of anyone's lack of interest in having them. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:39 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi Mayrie, I am seeing PQ books that do not have any page numbers at all, at least in BRF files. Yet we are still asked to include them. I do not understand this, although I still do as you do. (smile) Sue S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:10 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual Hi there, Please keep in mind that what I am going to tell you is supposed to be obsolete information. In the past, a blank line was necessary before and after both page numbers and chapter headings in order for Bookshare's conversion tools to locate, and identify page numbers and chapter headings. That is not supposed to be necessary any longer. However, I've seen books produced after the tools were supposed to be able to handle the lack of blank lines to identify page numbers and chapter headings for them which have page numbers incorperated into the text of the book. What I don't know, not having proofread the books that I've seen with this issue, is whether or not there was in the rtf document any separation whether blank line, or just a paragraph break between the page number and the text of the book, or whether the tools glitched in processing. Because I can't know why this happens, I choose to follow potentially antiquated procedures to be certain that page numbers are not incorperated into the text of books. My practise absolutely and positively causes no problems with books, so I am safe in any case. Sorry for the long-winded explanation. I hope it helps and allows you to choose for yourself what practises you prefer to follow. Please feel free to ask more questions if I've been unclear in any way. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Holmes Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:17 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: clarification on BKS manual This may be a newbie question, but what is meant by protecting page numbers and chapter headings? What text would otherwise be vulnerable? I'm asking this from the point of view of a proofreader. By the time the contents gets to me, either the headings are there or they are not. Same with page numbers. When I see the RTF, there isn't much I can do to those except for ensuring they are on their own lines (page numbers). Thanks for clarifying. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 01:42:57PM -0700, Mayrie ReNae wrote: > Hi Robin, > > This is just my opinion and my practise. I still protect all page > numbers and chapter headings. I'm not confident that the conversion > tools work as well as they should all of the time. They are supposed > to. Maybe they do, and maybe they don't. We're supposed to be able > to trust the tools. I prefer to take no chances. My only suggestion > is to experiment with a book by not protecting page numbers or chapter > headings and see what happens with it. > > It's up to you, in essence. > > Optional hyphens are the ones inserted when a word has been broken at > the end of a line in the book. I think that's right anyway. > > Mayrie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Van Lants > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:13 PM > To: Scott Rains; bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] clarification on BKS manual > > Hi, > > I just re-read the volunteer manual to catch the updates. It was great > to see the section on unnecessary formatting that the RTF tool does > after submission. My question is, if the RTF tool takes out white > spaces, are we still encourged to protect page breaks, page numbers > and chapter headings with blank lines on either side? I do this > before I submit a scan (while I've checking that all pages made it > into the book), but I see no reference to doing this in the manual anymore. > > Also, what is an "optional hyphen" as referenced in the manual? > > Thanks > > Robin > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5518 (20101009) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. 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