[bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:15:59 -0600
They don't strip out the spaces before and after an ellipsis, though--at
least not in the books I have submitted or proofread.
Blessings.
Lynnsky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:39 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
The problem with spaces, as I understand it, is that bookshare's tools
strip out multiple spaces and tabs.
Melissa
robert tweedy wrote:
> I have jaws set to ignore periods but the question would be how does
> it sound in a daisy device or with open book or kurzweil? What ever
> the decision is I will go with. How about spaces between the names of
> chapters and page numbers or would that be confusing to a blind person
> reading with speech?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori" <lori@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:03 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>
>
>> Then if we are using replace tabs then we do that first and then go
>> back and put in the dots by hand?
>>
>> Lori M
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Castner"
>> <loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:42 AM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>
>>
>>> If this group is making a decision or referring a suggestion to the
>>> VAT, then I agree with three dots.
>>>
>>> Lori C.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:05 AM
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>>
>>>
>>>> My vote is that we use three dots.
>>>>
>>>> Chapter 1 ... 1
>>>>
>>>> It's simple, short, and easy to insert. *smile*
>>>>
>>>> Blessings.
>>>>
>>>> Lynnsky
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:32 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From a braille reader's perspective, this doesn't look good,
>>>> especially
>>>> because people use braille displays of different lengths.
>>>> Some will have to scroll down one line, or maybe even two, just to
>>>> get past
>>>> all those dots. I counted 34 in the first item alone, and 28 in the
>>>> second
>>>> item. That seems like it would be a bit of a pain for braille readers.
>>>>
>>>> I think three dots is plenty.
>>>>
>>>> Evan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Franson"
>>>> <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 AM
>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a table of contents with the dot leaders as I found it. I
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> insert anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> How does it look for you sighted readers?
>>>>>
>>>>> How does it come out on a braille display?
>>>>>
>>>>> How does it sound to those who use screen readers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Window-Eyes, at least the way I have it set totally ignores these
>>>>> dot
>>>>> leaders. If I add periods like this on a line:
>>>>>
>>>>> ......
>>>>> Window-Eyes also ignores them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the table of contents.
>>>>>
>>>>> Contents
>>>>>
>>>>> Foreword .................................. 9
>>>>> 1 Intercession
>>>>> A Way of Life ............................ 13
>>>>> 2 Compassion in Action
>>>>> The Functions of Intercession ............... 26
>>>>> 3 Intensity in Vision
>>>>> The Priorities of Intercession ................ 44
>>>>> 4 Ordered Warfare
>>>>> Establishing Battle Strategies for
>>>>> Intercession .............................. 60
>>>>> 5 Authoritative Intercession
>>>>> Keys to "Fasting" Down Strongholds ........ 76
>>>>> 6 Praying for the Lost
>>>>> (A Week of Intercession)
>>>>> Monday: Six Interrogatives of Intercession .... 89
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 8
>>>>>
>>>>> 7 Praying for Authorities
>>>>> Tuesday: Invading Areas of Influence ........ 96
>>>>> 8 Praying for Nations
>>>>> Wednesday: Confronting Enemy
>>>>> Strongholds ............................. 105
>>>>> 9 Praying for Laborers
>>>>> Thursday: Co-Workers in the Conflict ....... 114
>>>>> 10 Praying for the Church
>>>>> Friday: Contending for Spiritual
>>>>> Awakening ............................. 12
>>>>> 11 Praying for the Sick and Afflicted
>>>>> Saturday: Biblical Factors for Physical
>>>>> Restoration ............................. 131
>>>>> 12 Praying for the Family
>>>>> Sunday: Prayer Patterns for Healthy
>>>>> Homes ................................. 143
>>>>> 13 Soul Conflict
>>>>> Taking Authority Against Spiritual
>>>>> Darkness ............................... 156
>>>>> 14 Prayer Travelers
>>>>> Mobilizing a Movement of World Prayer Missionaries
>>>>> ............................ 175
>>>>>
>>>>> Debby
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:26 PM 11/4/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
>>>>>> Hi Judy and Valerie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inserting an elipsis between items in a table of contents
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> respective page numbers will work. Any more dots than that would
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> potential nightmare for those reading with speech. Because in
>>>>>> the dot
>>>>>> leader format the screen readers might well read "dot dot dot
>>>>>> dot dot"
>>>>>> etc
>>>>>> depending upon the amount of punctuation each user has spoken.
>>>>>> So, if an
>>>>>> elipsis would work for sighted readers better than just a space,
>>>>>> I'm happy
>>>>>> to begin inserting an elipsis instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Valerie, for telling us how we can make things at least a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> more usable for some folks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mayrie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s.
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:42 PM
>>>>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Valerie. It is a torture to figure out tables of
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> visually with just the single space. I'm perfectly happy with an
>>>>>> ellipsis
>>>>>> instead of the space, as an idea. I can't see any way that
>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> figuour out how many periods to put in to make the right margin
>>>>>> on each
>>>>>> line, as is done with a printed book, will make sense or be
>>>>>> anything but a
>>>>>> nightmare to do if you're blind. Having an ellipsis in makes it
>>>>>> perfectly
>>>>>> readable for me visually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Golly, I hope I'm making sense. I had some major dental surgery
>>>>>> today and
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> had to use enough anesthesia to bring an elephant down. So I'm a
>>>>>> bit
>>>>>> loopy!
>>>>>> grin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Judy s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Maples wrote:
>>>>>> > Ideally you should have enough periods so the right margin is
>>>>>> even > for
>>>>>> > visual scanning of page numbers as a list, but an ellipsis
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> > better than a single space. that is outright torture to find >
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Valerie
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 11 04, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Hi Debby,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I'd like more commentary from our sighted print disabled
>>>>>> readers to
>>>>>> >> know whether this will be helpful before I change my
>>>>>> practises. >> I'm
>>>>>> >> happy to change, as you are, but not willing to make a permanent
>>>>>> >> change until or unless it is commented upon by more than one
>>>>>> >> person.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Vallerie, Doug, Judy, anyone else who is print disabled, but
>>>>>> >> sighted
>>>>>> >> want to comment on this?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Mayrie
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> >> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby
>>>>>> >> Franson
>>>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:58 AM
>>>>>> >> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi Mayrie!
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Should I insert elipses in the table of contents in "Rebel With a
>>>>>> >> Cause"?
>>>>>> >> It wouldn't be a bother.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Debby
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> At 07:50 AM 11/3/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
>>>>>> >>> Hi Melissa,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> That's a great idea! Let's see if it would work for folks like
>>>>>> >>> Valerie's Nichole, since Valerie was the one requesting a
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> >>> If it would work, I don't see how it would go against anything
>>>>>> >>> bookshare has
>>>>>> >> ever said.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Mayrie
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Melissa
>>>>>> >>> Smith
>>>>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:07 AM
>>>>>> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Table Of Contents
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I've been thinking about Valerye's concerns about the table of
>>>>>> >>> contents.
>>>>>> >>> I got to thinking about how Braille books have a series of dots
>>>>>> >>> between the chapter title and page number. So, I was
>>>>>> wondering if
>>>>>> >>> inserting an ellipses between the chapter title and page number
>>>>>> >>> would be an appropriate
>>>>>> >> solution.
>>>>>> >>> An ellipses will be recognized and kept by bookshare's tools,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >>> will give some separation between chapter title and page
>>>>>> number >>> for
>>>>>> >>> those that need that. It wouldn't be spoken by most screen
>>>>>> >>> readers,
>>>>>> >>> so wouldn't interfere with anybody's listening pleasure.
>>>>>> >>> Finally, since Braille readers are used to the series of dots
>>>>>> >>> between chapter title and page number, it wouldn't seem
>>>>>> unusual to
>>>>>> >>> them
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>> >>> So, do you think this would be acceptable and not violate any
>>>>>> >>> bookshare rules?
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Melissa
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
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>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>> >>> 11/03/09 13:38:00
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have.
>>>>>> Just
>>>>>> >> dreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
>>>>>> >> wind.--Ecclesiastes
>>>>>> >> 6:9 NLT
>>>>>> >>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. Just
>>>>> dreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
>>>>> wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT
>>>>>
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