[bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:18:49 -0600
As a personal preference, I left justify all books I proofread.
Blessings.
Lynnsky
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
As I understand it the Bookshare tools eliminate any extra spaces between
words or other characters. That would mean that if you right justified anything
it would not be right justified after the tools got through with it. Let me
add, though, that the leaders are there for a reason. If there is too much
space between the words and the numbers it gets a bit difficult for the sighted
reader to tell at a glance which words belong with which numbers. With leaders
the eye can follow the dots to the number almost instantaneously. If the
chapter titles are lengthy, on the other hand, and there is not much space
between the letters and the numbers that becomes less of a problem and leaders
are not necessary. Let me add that as a user of a screen reader it works
perfectly well for me to have the numbers follow the words with a single space,
but being a former sighted reader I know that would be a bit awkward. However,
I also know that a sighted reader can still gain the same information from that
format. It just is not gained at a single glance without thought. Now, if any
form that is used causes some kind of problem for someone with a different
disability or reading device then some kind of compromises might have to be
made. It just might be necessary to abandon the table format. Like I said, a
sighted reader does not absolutely need a table. It is only a convenience.
"I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am
a citizen of the world." Eugene V. Debs
The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
_
table with 2 columns and 6 rows
Subj:
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
Date:
11/5/2009 10:44:58 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:
mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx
Reply-to:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent from the Internet
(Details)
table end
Does bookshare's tools do away with all justification setting? If they
do not, we could right justify the page numbers. This wouldn't insert
any extra character, so to speak, for speech to worry about, and would
put the numbers where sighted readers expect them to be.
Melissa
Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx wrote:
> As a user of a screen reader it sounds fine, but if the titles and the
> page numbers are not in exact columns I don't think it will fulfill
> the purpose of a table for sighted readers, that is, providing
> information in a single glance without the necessity of reading it and
> thinking about it.
>
>
> "I have no country to fight for; my country is the
> earth, and I am a citizen of the world." Eugene V. Debs
>
> The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com
> <http://wwww.themilitant.com>Pathfinder Press:
> http://www.pathfinderpress.com
> Granma International: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html
> <http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html>
> _
>
> table with 2 columns and 6 rows
> Subj:
> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
> Date:
> 11/5/2009 1:04:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:
> the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Reply-to:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To:
> bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent from the Internet
> (Details)
> table end
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> Here is a table of contents with the dot leaders as I found it. I didn't
> insert anything.
>
> How does it look for you sighted readers?
>
> How does it come out on a braille display?
>
> How does it sound to those who use screen readers?
>
> Window-Eyes, at least the way I have it set totally ignores these dot
> leaders. If I add periods like this on a line:
>
> ......
> Window-Eyes also ignores them.
>
> Here's the table of contents.
>
> Contents
>
> Foreword .................................. 9
> 1 Intercession
> A Way of Life ............................ 13
> 2 Compassion in Action
> The Functions of Intercession ............... 26
> 3 Intensity in Vision
> The Priorities of Intercession ................ 44
> 4 Ordered Warfare
> Establishing Battle Strategies for
> Intercession .............................. 60
> 5 Authoritative Intercession
> Keys to "Fasting" Down Strongholds ........ 76
> 6 Praying for the Lost
> (A Week of Intercession)
> Monday: Six Interrogatives of Intercession .... 89
>
> 8
>
> 7 Praying for Authorities
> Tuesday: Invading Areas of Influence ........ 96
> 8 Praying for Nations
> Wednesday: Confronting Enemy
> Strongholds ............................. 105
> 9 Praying for Laborers
> Thursday: Co-Workers in the Conflict ....... 114
> 10 Praying for the Church
> Friday: Contending for Spiritual
> Awakening ............................. 12
> 11 Praying for the Sick and Afflicted
> Saturday: Biblical Factors for Physical
> Restoration ............................. 131
> 12 Praying for the Family
> Sunday: Prayer Patterns for Healthy
> Homes ................................. 143
> 13 Soul Conflict
> Taking Authority Against Spiritual
> Darkness ............................... 156
> 14 Prayer Travelers
> Mobilizing a Movement of World Prayer Missionaries
> ............................ 175
>
> Debby
>
> At 04:26 PM 11/4/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
> >Hi Judy and Valerie,
> >
> > Inserting an elipsis between items in a table of contents
> and their
> >respective page numbers will work. Any more dots than that would be a
> >potential nightmare for those reading with speech. Because in the dot
> >leader format the screen readers might well read "dot dot dot dot
> dot" etc
> >depending upon the amount of punctuation each user has spoken. So, if an
> >elipsis would work for sighted readers better than just a space, I'm
> happy
> >to begin inserting an elipsis instead.
> >
> >Thanks, Valerie, for telling us how we can make things at least a little
> >more usable for some folks.
> >
> >Mayrie
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s.
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:42 PM
> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
> >
> >I agree with Valerie. It is a torture to figure out tables of contents
> >visually with just the single space. I'm perfectly happy with an
> ellipsis
> >instead of the space, as an idea. I can't see any way that trying to
> >figuour out how many periods to put in to make the right margin on each
> >line, as is done with a printed book, will make sense or be anything
> but a
> >nightmare to do if you're blind. Having an ellipsis in makes it
> perfectly
> >readable for me visually.
> >
> >Golly, I hope I'm making sense. I had some major dental surgery today
> and we
> >had to use enough anesthesia to bring an elephant down. So I'm a bit
> loopy!
> >grin.
> >
> >Judy s.
> >
> >Valerie Maples wrote:
> > > Ideally you should have enough periods so the right margin is even for
> > > visual scanning of page numbers as a list, but an ellipsis would be
> > > better than a single space. that is outright torture to find
> anything.
> > >
> > > Valerie
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11 04, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Debby,
> > >>
> > >> I'd like more commentary from our sighted print disabled readers to
> > >> know whether this will be helpful before I change my practises. I'm
> > >> happy to change, as you are, but not willing to make a permanent
> > >> change until or unless it is commented upon by more than one person.
> > >>
> > >> Vallerie, Doug, Judy, anyone else who is print disabled, but sighted
> > >> want to comment on this?
> > >>
> > >> Mayrie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby
> > >> Franson
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:58 AM
> > >> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents
> > >>
> > >> Hi Mayrie!
> > >>
> > >> Should I insert elipses in the table of contents in "Rebel With a
> Cause"?
> > >> It wouldn't be a bother.
> > >>
> > >> Debby
> > >>
> > >> At 07:50 AM 11/3/2009, Mayrie ReNae wrote
> > >>> Hi Melissa,
> > >>>
> > >>> That's a great idea! Let's see if it would work for folks like
> > >>> Valerie's Nichole, since Valerie was the one requesting a change.
> > >>> If it would work, I don't see how it would go against anything
> > >>> bookshare has
> > >> ever said.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mayrie
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Melissa
> > >>> Smith
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:07 AM
> > >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Table Of Contents
> > >>>
> > >>> I've been thinking about Valerye's concerns about the table of
> contents.
> > >>> I got to thinking about how Braille books have a series of dots
> > >>> between the chapter title and page number. So, I was wondering if
> > >>> inserting an ellipses between the chapter title and page number
> > >>> would be an appropriate
> > >> solution.
> > >>> An ellipses will be recognized and kept by bookshare's tools, and
> > >>> will give some separation between chapter title and page number for
> > >>> those that need that. It wouldn't be spoken by most screen readers,
> > >>> so wouldn't interfere with anybody's listening pleasure.
> > >>> Finally, since Braille readers are used to the series of dots
> > >>> between chapter title and page number, it wouldn't seem unusual
> to them
> >either.
> > >>> So, do you think this would be acceptable and not violate any
> > >>> bookshare rules?
> > >>>
> > >>> Melissa
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. Just
> > >> dreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
> > >> wind.--Ecclesiastes
> > >> 6:9 NLT
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> --
> Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have. Just
> dreaming
> about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the
> wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT
>
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