True. What I meant is that they strip out multiple spaces and tabs. Melissa Lynn I wrote:
They don't strip out the spaces before and after an ellipsis, though--at least not in the books I have submitted or proofread.Blessings. Lynnsky----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Smith" <mdsmith25@xxxxxxxx>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents The problem with spaces, as I understand it, is that bookshare's tools strip out multiple spaces and tabs. Melissa robert tweedy wrote:I have jaws set to ignore periods but the question would be how does it sound in a daisy device or with open book or kurzweil? What ever the decision is I will go with. How about spaces between the names of chapters and page numbers or would that be confusing to a blind person reading with speech? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori" <lori@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:03 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of ContentsThen if we are using replace tabs then we do that first and then go back and put in the dots by hand? Lori M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Castner" <loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:42 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of ContentsIf this group is making a decision or referring a suggestion to the VAT, then I agree with three dots. Lori C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:05 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of ContentsMy vote is that we use three dots. Chapter 1 ... 1 It's simple, short, and easy to insert. *smile* Blessings. Lynnsky ----- Original Message ----- From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:32 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents From a braille reader's perspective, this doesn't look good, especially because people use braille displays of different lengths. Some will have to scroll down one line, or maybe even two, just to get past all those dots. I counted 34 in the first item alone, and 28 in the second item. That seems like it would be a bit of a pain for braille readers. I think three dots is plenty. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:03 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of ContentsHi everyone! Here is a table of contents with the dot leaders as I found it. I didn't insert anything. How does it look for you sighted readers? How does it come out on a braille display? How does it sound to those who use screen readers? Window-Eyes, at least the way I have it set totally ignores these dot leaders. If I add periods like this on a line: ...... Window-Eyes also ignores them. Here's the table of contents. Contents Foreword .................................. 9 1 Intercession A Way of Life ............................ 13 2 Compassion in Action The Functions of Intercession ............... 26 3 Intensity in Vision The Priorities of Intercession ................ 44 4 Ordered Warfare Establishing Battle Strategies for Intercession .............................. 60 5 Authoritative Intercession Keys to "Fasting" Down Strongholds ........ 76 6 Praying for the Lost (A Week of Intercession) Monday: Six Interrogatives of Intercession .... 89 8 7 Praying for Authorities Tuesday: Invading Areas of Influence ........ 96 8 Praying for Nations Wednesday: Confronting Enemy Strongholds ............................. 105 9 Praying for Laborers Thursday: Co-Workers in the Conflict ....... 114 10 Praying for the Church Friday: Contending for Spiritual Awakening ............................. 12 11 Praying for the Sick and Afflicted Saturday: Biblical Factors for Physical Restoration ............................. 131 12 Praying for the Family Sunday: Prayer Patterns for Healthy Homes ................................. 143 13 Soul Conflict Taking Authority Against Spiritual Darkness ............................... 156 14 Prayer Travelers Mobilizing a Movement of World Prayer Missionaries ............................ 175 Debby At 04:26 PM 11/4/2009, Mayrie ReNae wroteHi Judy and Valerie, Inserting an elipsis between items in a table of contents and their respective page numbers will work. Any more dots than that would be a potential nightmare for those reading with speech. Because in the dot leader format the screen readers might well read "dot dot dot dot dot" etc depending upon the amount of punctuation each user has spoken. So, if an elipsis would work for sighted readers better than just a space, I'm happy to begin inserting an elipsis instead. Thanks, Valerie, for telling us how we can make things at least a little more usable for some folks. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judy s. Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:42 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents I agree with Valerie. It is a torture to figure out tables of contents visually with just the single space. I'm perfectly happy with an ellipsis instead of the space, as an idea. I can't see any way that trying to figuour out how many periods to put in to make the right margin on each line, as is done with a printed book, will make sense or be anything but a nightmare to do if you're blind. Having an ellipsis in makes it perfectly readable for me visually. Golly, I hope I'm making sense. I had some major dental surgery today and we had to use enough anesthesia to bring an elephant down. So I'm a bit loopy! grin. Judy s. Valerie Maples wrote:Ideally you should have enough periods so the right margin iseven > forvisual scanning of page numbers as a list, but an ellipsiswould bebetter than a single space. that is outright torture to find >anything.Valerie On 11 04, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:Hi Debby, I'd like more commentary from our sighted print disabledreaders toknow whether this will be helpful before I change mypractises. >> I'mhappy to change, as you are, but not willing to make a permanent change until or unless it is commented upon by more than one person. Vallerie, Doug, Judy, anyone else who is print disabled, but sighted want to comment on this? Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby Franson Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:58 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Table Of Contents Hi Mayrie! Should I insert elipses in the table of contents in "Rebel With a Cause"? It wouldn't be a bother. Debby At 07:50 AM 11/3/2009, Mayrie ReNae wroteHi Melissa, That's a great idea! Let's see if it would work for folks like Valerie's Nichole, since Valerie was the one requesting achange.If it would work, I don't see how it would go against anything bookshare hasever said.Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf OfMelissaSmith Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:07 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Table Of Contents I've been thinking about Valerye's concerns about the table of contents. I got to thinking about how Braille books have a series of dots between the chapter title and page number. So, I waswondering ifinserting an ellipses between the chapter title and page number would be an appropriatesolution.An ellipses will be recognized and kept by bookshare's tools,andwill give some separation between chapter title and pagenumber >>> forthose that need that. It wouldn't be spoken by most screen readers, so wouldn't interfere with anybody's listening pleasure. Finally, since Braille readers are used to the series of dots between chapter title and page number, it wouldn't seemunusual tothemeither.So, do you think this would be acceptable and not violate any bookshare rules? Melissa To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. Toget >>> alist of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subjectline.To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. Toget >>> alist of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subjectline.No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - ReleaseDate:11/03/09 13:38:00-- Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what you don't have.Justdreaming about nice things is meaningless; it is like chasing the wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. Toget alist of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. 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