Dear Jake, Thanks for the explanation. I'll save it in Bookshare Tips to reread when I'm over the shock. Just need a little time. I'll get over it. Always with love, Lissi ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Brownell To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:04 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces Hi Lissi, Here's a look at what BookShare tries to do. It attempts to identify paragraphs, and digitally marks them as such. The power of DAISY comes into play because the DAISY book knows what a paragraph is. In theory, software programs from that point on should display the paragraphs how the user wants. For example you may wish to have a blank line denote paragraphs, whereas others may want to have an indent. For some users, a larger indent might be nice and so they can use that. Keep in mind that sometimes OCR software misjudges how many blank spaces should be in a given place. More often than not it's clearer to the reader if they are presented in a uniform fassion. Now, the fact that Tabs are eaten...right, they should at minimum be replaced with a space. And multiple spaces probably should be kept as well. But unfortunately, with automated systems, reproducing each and every book exactly as it appears in print is a practical impossibility. HTH, Jake ----- Original Message ----- From: Estelnalissi To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:57 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces Dear Kelly, Thanks for the explanation. Does this mean when books are produced from Bookshare, there's no such thing as an indent at all? So this book with 4 separate margins to indicate quotes from narrative from song lyrics by arranging words flush, paragraph indent, deep quote indent and one between paragraph and quote used for lines of quotes over 1 line long will appear with no indents at all? I'm surprised we're worrying about the fractional inches of difference between m dash and double dash etc, when the entire spatial formatting of all of the books is wiped out. You know I love Bookshare and am always willing to work within the system, but all of this talk about precisely duplicating the book now sounds like overkill. I mean, at least as far as margins, indents for paragraphs, indented poetry and quotes or reproduced correspondence, anything the publisher sets off spatially is erased? When I taught elementary to both blind and sighted kids, this spacing often helped kids find their place on a page, and alerted them to the insertion of material other than the narrative. I'm just shocked that I'm realizing this for the first time after 13 months of trying to insure that a book's format was replicated. It isn't a criticism, but a huge alteration in my perception of my responsibility. It will make validating easier, ignoring spacing and margins, but it makes me realize bookshare books come out sort of literally flattened. It does go to prove I can barely see my computer screen. I've listened to several books on Daisy assuming the print was scrolling in an arrangement close to that of the print book. It never occurred to me that everything was left justified. I didn't go character by character to hear where things were placed. On my braille note, I also gave up on understanding the format and read only for content. Lack of format is the reason I haven't read poetry on my BN. For most sighted poetry writers, placement of their words is a part of the art, a compliment to the words. As you suggest, I'll go on as I am. It's still scary to change things with only 30 pages to go. From now on, everything is left justified with only hard breaks to indicate paragraphs, not even a blank line between them. Do I understand it now? From the perspective of a person who has read braille from first grade and only read print because it was the only way to read nearly 100 percent of the reading material in the world I can say cramming print together without offsetting anything with spaces, makes it visually more difficult to read. This isn't an issue with me because I need bookshare for access to audio and braille books. Realistically, I understand very well that when a system tries to cater to every need, the end result is that far fewer people are served in the long run. Back to work I go, to an easier job and always loving bookshare. Always with love, Lissi ----- Original Message ----- From: Kellie Hartmann To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces Hi Lissi and Paula, I had to think about the spacing issue to get it straight in my head before answering these. Lissi, I absolutely hate to tell you this after all the work you've gone to on this validation. What happens is that tabs are completely eaten and not replaced with even a space, and strings of spaces are all reduced to one space. I don't know why this should be, but we had done some testing in the past and that was what we'd figured out. Lissi, I wouldn't go back and take the spaces out of your current project. Hopefully all the care you've taken on the dashes will suffice to let readers know what's going on. Kellie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/357 - Release Date: 6/6/2006