[bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or Spaces
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 17:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
It may be that poetry is meant to be heard--I don't
know, but I do know that the formatting of s poem
indicates how it should be read aloud.
And sometimes the formatting is made to create visual
images, though I can't think of specific examples at
the moment. I validated a couple, being very careful
to keep the formatting before learning that it gets
lost. Sad.
Cindy
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I just had two thoughts occur to me:
>
> Firstly, My OpenBook has a setting called Keep Exact
> View. Not having
> scanned anything like what Lissi is refering to, I
> didn't know if this
> worked well or not. I'm not talking about what the
> Bookshare processing
> does with it, but if you scanned it with OB for your
> own reading before it
> was sent to Bookshare and downloaded back again, how
> well did it preserve
> the formatting. Did you have this setting turned
> on?
>
> Also, I am wondering how important this formatting
> really is. Don't authors
> often read their own poetry at readings and such?
> Surely, you have no
> formatting indications while listening to a poet
> read his/her work. I think
> I even recall some poet or other state that poetry
> is primarily intended to
> be heard, although obviously not everyone will agree
> with that.
>
> I know very little about this subject, I freely
> admit, so I hope people will
> enlighten me kindly. <smile>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisa Belville" <lisab12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:05 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or
> Spaces
>
>
> > Hi, Lisa.
> >
> > I feel your pain. <smiles>
> >
> > I didn't realize that the formatting was
> eradicated to the extent it is
> > until reading this thread.
> >
> > I understand where you're coming from regarding
> poetry and how spaces and
> > indents are used to enhance the meaning. I can
> remember being very
> > disappointed a few years ago when I tried using
> Openbook to scan some
> > poetry, only to find it destroyed the visual
> representation of the poem.
> >
> > I agree that this is a shame, but I can understand
> there are technical
> > limits Bookshare is laboring under. I think
> having access to the text of
> > a poem is still very useful, and isn't something
> that should be
> > discounted. Unless a publisher or an author
> objects to their work being
> > rearranged, I think we should count ourselves
> lucky that we have access to
> > material that until recently was out of our grasp.
> >
> > I'm still very happy to have Bookshare as a
> resource and I'm still
> > enthusiastic about volunteering. Like you said,
> not having to agonize
> > over proper indentation and spacing does make our
> job easier. <smiles>
> >
> > As someone who primarily reads things through
> speech, I can honestly say
> > that I can still get the meanings of poems and
> stories, sometimes my
> > interpretation is vastly different than what the
> "Official" interpretation
> > is, but that's the joy of poetry, I think. Still,
> having that visual or
> > tactile indication of an indent is helpful and
> necessary for someone
> > trying to cite a source for research purposes.
> Hopefully this issue will
> > be added to the ever growing list of needed
> improvements.
> >
> > Just my Validator's fifty cents worth. <smiles>
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:57 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or
> Spaces
> >
> >
> > Dear Kelly,
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > Does this mean when books are produced from
> Bookshare, there's no such
> > thing as an indent at all? So this book with 4
> separate margins to
> > indicate quotes from narrative from song lyrics by
> arranging words flush,
> > paragraph indent, deep quote indent and one
> between paragraph and quote
> > used for lines of quotes over 1 line long will
> appear with no indents at
> > all?
> >
> > I'm surprised we're worrying about the fractional
> inches of difference
> > between m dash and double dash etc, when the
> entire spatial formatting of
> > all of the books is wiped out.
> >
> > You know I love Bookshare and am always willing to
> work within the system,
> > but all of this talk about precisely duplicating
> the book now sounds like
> > overkill. I mean, at least as far as margins,
> indents for paragraphs,
> > indented poetry and quotes or reproduced
> correspondence, anything the
> > publisher sets off spatially is erased?
> >
> > When I taught elementary to both blind and sighted
> kids, this spacing
> > often helped kids find their place on a page, and
> alerted them to the
> > insertion of material other than the narrative.
> I'm just shocked that I'm
> > realizing this for the first time after 13 months
> of trying to insure that
> > a book's format was replicated.
> >
> > It isn't a criticism, but a huge alteration in my
> perception of my
> > responsibility. It will make validating easier,
> ignoring spacing and
> > margins, but it makes me realize bookshare books
> come out sort of
> > literally flattened.
> >
> > It does go to prove I can barely see my computer
> screen. I've listened to
> > several books on Daisy assuming the print was
> scrolling in an arrangement
> > close to that of the print book. It never occurred
> to me that everything
> > was left justified. I didn't go character by
> character to hear where
> > things were placed. On my braille note, I also
> gave up on understanding
> > the format and read only for content. Lack of
> format is the reason I
> > haven't read poetry on my BN. For most sighted
> poetry writers, placement
> > of their words is a part of the art, a compliment
> to the words.
> >
> > As you suggest, I'll go on as I am. It's still
> scary to change things with
> > only 30 pages to go.
> >
> > From now on, everything is left justified with
> only hard breaks to
> > indicate paragraphs, not even a blank line between
> them. Do I understand
> > it now?
> >
> > From the perspective of a person who has read
> braille from first grade and
> > only read print because it was the only way to
> read nearly 100 percent of
> > the reading material in the world I can say
> cramming print together
> > without offsetting anything with spaces, makes it
> visually more difficult
> > to read. This isn't an issue with me because I
> need bookshare for access
> > to audio and braille books. Realistically, I
> understand very well that
> > when a system tries to cater to every need, the
> end result is that far
> > fewer people are served in the long run.
> >
> > Back to work I go, to an easier job and always
> loving bookshare.
> >
> > Always with love,
> >
> > Lissi
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kellie Hartmann
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:54 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Formatting Tabs or
> Spaces
> >
> >
> > Hi Lissi and Paula,
> > I had to think about the spacing issue to get it
> straight in my head
> > before answering these. Lissi, I absolutely hate
> to tell you this after
> > all the work you've gone to on this validation.
> What happens is that tabs
> > are completely eaten and not replaced with even a
> space, and strings of
> > spaces are all reduced to one space. I don't know
> why this should be, but
> > we had done some testing in the past and that was
> what we'd figured out.
> > Lissi, I wouldn't go back and take the spaces out
> of your current project.
> > Hopefully all the care you've taken on the dashes
> will suffice to let
> > readers know what's going on.
> > Kellie
> >
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