[austechwriter] Re: Must, will, etc. - modals

  • From: "Steve Hudson" <cruddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:15:35 +1000

> My point is not to say that "will" does not refer to the future - what I'm
saying is that it is not a simply a future marker.

If that is truly the case Petra, please provide examples of "will" being
used in present and past tenses.

My point is this

We live and work in the present tense, thus our work instructions should be
as well. Being traditionally ISO trained, I was brought up with "will" and
naturally gravitated towards it. Then Tech Whirlers set me straight real
quick. Future tense adds extra words, will being just one of them. Then I
married a Thai lass, they have NO TENSES at all.

A business shouldn't "should do" things. It should "do things". We do things
this way. When we don't, we record. There is P&P in a nutshell. Present,
perfect, tense, active voice leads straight to imperatives.

If I say " we will do it this way" it can be literally taken to mean we
don't do it that way right now. Matter of fact, I can say "I will test every
reply" and never test one but plan for said test in the future and it STILL
HOLDS TRUE. Future tense in P&P is a scapegoat for bad current practices.

I use "should" etc in this message because it is NOT a corporate P&P. Said
"modals" ARE a part of English. So are colloquialisms. Neither are part of
TECH writing.


Steve Hudson

Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
Email:      steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Products:   http://www.geocities.com/word_heretic/products.html
Spellbooks: 728 pages of dump left and dropping...


-----Original Message-----
From:  Petra Liverani

Steve,

I have no idea what you're talking about. The infinitive is "to + verb",
that is, the verb by itself, where it does not express time and is not
attached to a subject. "Will" can be used with "be" to refer to events in
the future as it can be used with any other verb. What is your point? My
point is not to say that "will" does not refer to the future - what I'm
saying is that it is not a simply a future marker. Often, it refers to an
event in the future but with an added meaning (for example, determination to
do something -  I will so go to the party) and it may also be used in
situations where the future is not involved  - or barely (that'll be John at
the door, that'll be $10.50, Will you please shut up!). Probably, most often
when we are talking about what we're going to do in the future (with no
added meaning) we use the present continuous - I'm going to England next
week.

Petra

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hudson <cruddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:22 PM
Subject: [austechwriter] Re: Must, will, etc. - modals


> Funny, I coulda swore "will" was a future "to be". Ye olde infinitive
> actually.
>
> Steve Hudson
>
> Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
> Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
> Email:      steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Products:   http://www.geocities.com/word_heretic/products.html
> Spellbooks: 728 pages of dump left and dropping...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Petra Liverani
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2003 3:53 PM
> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [austechwriter] Must, will, etc. - modals
>
>
> You might find it interesting to note that "must" and "will" belong to a
> class of auxiliary verbs in English called modals. Modals are words which
> indicate our opinions and attitudes. English modals include:
> can    could
> shall   should
> will     would
> may    might
> must
>
> In modern English only "could" and "would" are used as pasts of "can" and
> "will". (I could do gymnastics when I was young. He would sit for hours).
>
> Modals are used with many different meanings. "Will" combined with a verb
is
> often taught as being future tense. However, there really is no proper
> future tense in English. "Will" can be used for future but so can the
> present continuous (I'm going to America next week). "Will" can also be
used
> in other ways. For example:
>
> That will be John at the door. (probability)
> You will not go to the party. (prohibition)
> I will go to the party. (intention)
>
> There's quite a lot of stuff on modals on the internet and an interesting
> one about teaching modals to foreigners can be found at
> http://www3.telus.net/linguisticsissues/modalsinteaching.html
>
> In the last place I worked "shall" and "will" were replaced with "must" to
> express obligation. "Must" seems to unequivocally express obligation
better
> than "will", especially for non-native speakers. However, people might
find
> "must" off-putting if they find it all the way through a document. As
> someone else suggested, using "always" or trying to find other ways around
> using a strong-sounding imperative without comprising meaning is probably
> desirable.
>
> Petra
>
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