Interesting to see this correspondence Sean. Dawning my Wittgensteinian hat, I immediately wish to investigate what the concept of "will" means in its home turf, independently of philosophy (yes, phrasing it that way may inspire some insecurity among the "special competence" crowd, who argue that philosophers have "special competencies" ergo "special rights" as opinion-makers). The USans, as some know them (USAers), incarcerate more people per capita than most and so are known around the world to have a lower Free Will Index than most other places. Sounds like science fiction maybe? Imagine a tribe... I was recently attending a conference on this aspect of North American ethnicities, which felt to me like an offshoot of NARMIC, an old (retired) AFSC program (I'm a member of said committee). The "prison-industrial complex" as it's now called, offers highly lucrative lifestyles, employs a vast army, and yet many of its core practices are aimed at restricting the wills of its wards, keeping them incommunicado and without recourse to redress. The question arose (posed by Elaine Brown on Friday night at Reed College) regarding the 13th Amendment, which basically abolishes slavery under the heading of "involuntary servitude" (back to "free will" again, versus "unfree will"). If you're paying your debt to society on a chain gang, building a railroad, the might be construed as within the bounds, but to be committed to prison, perhaps with no practical chance at parole, *and* to be saddled with involuntary servitude... where is that in the Constitution? The trend in anthropology is to look at the prison network as a kind of gulag that has already willingly seceded from the United States, in terms of being above the latter's laws (outside its jurisdiction), in cahoots with a military caste that's somewhat the same way (abides by its own laws). The USA today actually has a vanishingly small citizenship by some accounts, given the number who've sold out to the Unfree State that has grown up in its midst. Anthropologists are moving this way with their analysis thanks in part to the "freak out factor" associated with such gulag programs as HTS (Human Terrain Systems), which has recently sought to commandeer the university system as a source of lipstick for its pig. British Aerospace and Engineering has a guiding role in the background, as one might expect given the recent history of Anglophone empires. More in this blog for context: http://zeroanthropology.net/all-posts/the-leavenworth-diary-double-agent-anthropologist-inside-the-human-terrain-system/ In sum, I think if there is such a thing as Free Will, then we should acknowledge, perhaps in some legal code, that the USA has less Free Will than many "states" (a term in need of further definition) and/or the prison system is being recast more on the model of the NavAm Reservations, a network of quasi-sovereignties that operate by different laws. In the case of the prison-industrial complex / campus, characterized by forced labor camps (aka concentration camps), stop-loss holding queues, other hallmarks of forced conscription (e.g. mandatory ROTC is in violation of various UN resolutions against military molestation of youth, human trafficking etc.), it's pretty clear it should have it's own (relatively low) number. Just as Bhutan has gone with Gross Happiness Index over Gross Domestic Product (as the latter inanely factors WMDs per capita under the same heading as ice cream, namely as "product"), so should the Free Will Index be a published number, that might go up and down. The USA's FWI ticked up when, shortly after the abolition of slavery (Lincoln's move to break the back of the insurgents), the rights of women were partially and unequally enacted (or restored, from some perspectives). More Free Will came into the picture then. However, more recently, the FWI has been plummeting, owing to the growth industry of forced labor camps (in direct violation of the 13th Amendment), as dramatized by the Georgia State uprising (part of the unfolding history of the gulag, an alien network of concentration camps and other extra-legal institutions, sprawling across our land). On the other hand, if Free Will is known to not exist, then hey, lets just get on with it, like what choice do we have? Kirby Abbreviations: NARMIC AFSC WMD FWI USA On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Sean Wilson <whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > May I ask what are the stakes of this discussion? Not so much the > discussion of > what the etymology of "free will" might be, but of the need to take a > position > on "free will" generally. What are the stakes of such a thing? It seems to > me > that this is the same issue for philosophy as it is science. Imagine a > study > that proclaimed: "there is no 'free will.'" Or one that said: "we've > proved > that 'free will' exists." What on earth would one even do with such a > thing? > > It seems that if I grant or deny any of these claims, nothing actually > changes > in the world except the arrangement of my lexicon. I have no choice but to > behave as I do no matter how the language game about it changes. It's like > those discussions about whether consciousness is "physical" or whether the > world > > exists independent of my mind. All of these things essentially amount to a > kind > of ideology or theology about something for which how I go about it has > only > become decorated by the faiths I prefer. > > Or if, in fact, the things I believe about it are "real things," all it > seems to > > change is the way I have to language about it. It doesn't seem to change > anything "on the ground," so to speak. No matter what, I still must > participate > the way I must in the form of life. > > And so I am just not clear on what the stakes of any discussion about "free > will" could ever be. > > (P.S. Sorry if I have missed the thrust of the discussion. I confess not to > have > > read every mail. Also, please note that I have forwarded this to Wittrs. > Don't > hit "reply all" if you don't want the mail to go there. If there is a > policy > against a cross-post, please let me know.) > > > Regards and thanks. > > Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq. > Assistant Professor > Wright State University > Personal Website: http://seanwilson.org > SSRN papers: http://ssrn.com/author=596860 > Wittgenstein Discussion: http://seanwilson.org/wiki/doku.php?id=wittrs > >