FWIW, where this is concerned, it returns to the rationale I implemented Citrix in early '98. Back then, the main, single reason I did it, was bandwidth - all the other reasons were icing on the cake. Sure TCO, manageability, and a centralised solution were nice to have, but the bandwidth I couldn't get around by any other approach - at least within reasonable financial constraints. Sometimes, that very same, singular, unavoidable reason still applies - good bandwidth, over big distance, costs. Neil > -----Original Message----- > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Pitsch > Sent: 13 July 2005 18:41 > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [THIN] Re: Visual Studio .NET > > Thanks for the answers guys. Give me something to think about... > > Jeff Pitsch > > On 7/13/05, Henry Sieff <hsieff@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > 1. Remote access - developers in our environment frequently have to > > work remotely, and rather than have to figure out how to > provide them > > access to the source code repository securely, I'd rather > use citrix. > > 2. On there home machines, developers might not have the > right set of > > controls installed or different versions of controls. This > makes code > > built and compiled on their machine suspect. > > > > They still use there own machines if they are in the office. > > > > The environment I set up is done with the understanding > that they may > > have to deal with their fellow developers screwing things > up. That's > > why I make images (rollback) and why I don't put it on general use > > servers, except for sourcesafe which is fairly benign. > > > > FWIW - I haven't had to blow out the OS once since I built > this, and > > thus far (6 months), no BSOD on the current setup and most problems > > were solved by ending an offending session. (knock on wood). > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Pitsch > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:43 AM > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Visual Studio .NET > > > > > > I'm genuinely curious. Why would you use TS/MF to deploy Visual > > > Studio? It boggles my imagination what those developers could be > > > doing to the server. Call me old school, but I would rather > > > developers mess with their own machines than mess with > one of mine > > > in that way. Seriously, one dumb developer or one badly compiled > > > program and everyone on the server is now not working. > Just doesn't > > > seem very prudent. > > > > > > Jeff Pitsch > > > > > > > > > On 7/13/05, Henry Sieff <hsieff@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > If I needed to support more developers, or deploy the app on > > > > general-use servers, I probably would opt for the > softricity route. > > > > > > > > Has anyone used Softricity to deploy vs.net? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Braebaum, Neil > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:53 AM > > > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Visual Studio .NET > > > > > > > > > > For something like this virtualising or isolating the > > > apps is almost > > > > > certainly a requirement (see: Softgrid or app isolation > > > environments > > > > > in PS4), and performance optimisation software > (tscale, armtech, > > > > > appsense). > > > > > > > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Henry Sieff > > > > > > Sent: 13 July 2005 16:09 > > > > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: Visual Studio .NET > > > > > > > > > > > > I run a server with this for a development team of > > > about 16, but > > > > > > rarely do we see more than 4-6 users at a time. I saw > > > performance > > > > > > degradation when I had 10 users compile a large app at the > > > > > same time, > > > > > > but its been pretty stable and that useage pattern isn't > > > > > normal, so I > > > > > > would feel pretty confident putting 20 or so users on > > > there doing > > > > > > normal development, anything more and things may get > > > interesting > > > > > > because the IDE is very inefficient for running apps. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would strongly recommend, if you plan on pushing it to 20 > > > > > users and > > > > > > beyond, that you use a CPU and/or memory optimization > > > package like > > > > > > tscale or armtech because your developers will starve each > > > > > other and > > > > > > the OS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/academic/techdown/techprod/netframew > > > > > > ork/devsys > > > > > > /devsysws03/default.aspx is a link to a bunch of stuff > > > about doing > > > > > > just this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Permissions can be hard - for some tasks (debugging > > > asp.net apps > > > > > > in > > > > > > IIS5) they need to be local admins (whidbey is > supposed to fix > > > > > > this problem). I simply use a runas and set up a local admin > > > > > which they run > > > > > > the app as once they log in if they need to do this. When I > > > > > > migrate this to Win2k3, I can use II6 which allows me > > > to give each > > > > > developer > > > > > > their own app pool which runs as them, and then they > > > can debug to > > > > > > their hearts content. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sysinternals is crucial since when they aren't running as > > > > > local admin > > > > > > they still need extra perms to HKCR, et al. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and take images a lot, since at some point a third > > > > > party control > > > > > > will get installed that will fuxor everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > SourceSafe (I assume that's what you mean) was very > > > easy and runs > > > > > > great. > > > > > > VS.NET is tougher, but as long as you are willing to spend > > > > > some time > > > > > > tweaking registry permissions and take steps to control > > > > > changes (third > > > > > > party control installation etc.) it can be pretty stable. ***************************************************************************** This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named recipient only. 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