[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

From: tjanphyl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:25:34 -0400
Guys:
"Gain" was used by antenna engineers and designers. They needed some 
point of reference to measure and compare one antenna's performance 
compared to another. These labs always used the term "gain" to 
reference the difference between the antenna being designed and their 
reference "dipole" antenna which is considered "unity gain". (no gain) 
The gain numbers refer to how much more signal strength the gain 
antenna sends to the reciever than the reference dipole antenna does 
connected to the same reciever from the same signal source. Any 
measurement has to have a reference. Frequencies in labs are compared 
to the lab's reference cesium clock (atomic) so as to know how far the 
device under test varies from the standard. You must know the "knowns" 
to measure the variables.
Phil

----- Original Message -----
From: Damon <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:11 pm
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have 
onestandard ?

> Yeah, I really don't know why the term is "gain" when you're not 
> reallygaining additional power from the "ethers".
> 
> All I do understand is that the "Effective Antenna Power"  is 
> affected by
> the "Effective(??) Gain" of the antenna.........
> Our teacher in Antenna/Microwave Cavity training used the term 
> "Effective"consistently when talking about Antennas, and termed it 
> as what the antenna
> "looks like" in relations to the Earth, Atmosphere, and recieving
> equipment......
> 
> Remember the old Startup/Shutdown public message broadcast from TV 
> and radio
> stations? They always noted the Channel and Effective Power of 
> that station.
> I remember WOWO transmitting that "50,000" Watts message every 
> hour, but the
> Local TV stations mostly stated their power at the end of the 
> transmissionday.
> 
> Damon B
> Telrad Electronics
> Fort Wayne IN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Silverman" <greentron@xxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:53 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> onestandard ?
> 
> 
> > Antennas dont really have "gain". There are only so many 
> microwatts that
> > strike the antenna elements and they cant "suck in" any 
> microwatts from
> the
> > space around them. The antenna design determines how many of those
> > microwatts at a given wavelength gets converted into microvolts, 
and
> > determines the rejection of unwanted signals or noise at other 
> wavelengths> and coming from other directions. So with digital 
> signals, the antenna and
> > its installation will be the critical component.
> > Jerry Silverman
> > Greentron Inc
> > 4 Newland Ave
> > Greenville SC 29609
> > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> > mail to: greentron@xxxxxxx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Damon" <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:52 AM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> > onestandard ?
> >
> >
> > > Yes, you're correct....digital signals avoid ghosting/multipath
> problems,
> > > and in areas where an analog signal was snowy/grainy they will 
now
> recieve
> > a
> > > perfectly clear picture, and weaker signal areas will recieve 
> broken up
> > > signal information, or none at all.....
> > >
> > > The rated "Antenna Power" will determine how far the signal is 
> recieved.> > The "Tranmitter Power" only determines how much power 
> the the
> transmitter
> > > sends to the antenna......an example is that a 500kW 
> transmitter can
> send
> > > it's signal to a 6-Bay antenna and that 6-Bay antenna will 
> have an
> > > "effective Antenna Power of (6 x 500kW) or 3MW.
> > > That's what I was informed by the NBC affiliate's engineer 
> (Gene) back
> in
> > > the late '80's
> > >
> > > There are other things that affect Antenna power.....antenna 
gain,
> > effective
> > > height of the antenna, number of antennas......
> > > Still a 440V 3 phase transmitter would require a 100 Amp 
> service to
> drive
> > a
> > > setup like that.
> > > And that 500kw tranmitter at 10 cents a kilowatt/hour would 
> cost $36,000
> a
> > > month.
> > >
> > > Damon B
> > > Telrad Electronics
> > > Fort Wayne IN
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:16 AM
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we 
> have> > onestandard ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > So do you need a stronger digital signal than analog signal 
> to give a
> > > > good picture?  I realize that there is a minimum signal 
> required to
> give
> > > > a picture with digital, but I always thought that one of the
> advantages
> > > > of digital was that even a weak signal would give a perfect 
> picture;> > > whereas a similar weak analog signal would give a 
> grainy B/W picture.
> > > >
> > > > Just like the hundredth generation copy of a digital VHS 
> tape will
> give
> > > > a perfect picture, but after only the second generation copy 
> an analog
> > > > VHS tape will look terrible.  Does this analogy not apply to 
the
> > > > broadcast of digital vs. analog signals?
> > > >
> > > > Kevin Wilks
> > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> > > > Penticton BC Canada
> > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerome 
> Silverman> > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:25 PM
> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will 
> we have
> > > > onestandard ?
> > > >
> > > > I cant think of any reason why it should, but with digital 
> you need a
> > > > really
> > > > good signal or you get no picture at all, no snow, no 
> ghosts, no
> > > > grainyness - just no picture!
> > > > Jerry Silverman
> > > > Greentron Inc
> > > > 4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
> > > > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
> > > > greentron@xxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:10 PM
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will 
> we have
> > > > onestandard ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Doesn't digital take a lot less power to transmit?  Their 
> costs may
> be
> > > > > higher, but not much higher (unless they are in California).
> > > > >
> > > > > Kevin Wilks
> > > > > Kevin's TV Repair
> > > > > Penticton BC Canada
> > > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Wayne Vanaman
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:51 AM
> > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC 
> goes,will we have
> > > > > onestandard ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Did they mandate which side of the road we had to drive on?
> > > > >
> > > > > A conversion like this can not be drawn out.  One of the 
> things that
> > > > > surprises me is the lack of support from the TV stations.  
> Whilethey
> > > > > are broadcasting digital and analog their power bills have 
> to be a
> lot
> > > > > higher.  I would think they would want to turn off one of the
> > > > > transmitters.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wayne Vanaman
> > > > > Omega Electronics
> > > > > 6904 W Fairfield Dr
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl.  32506-3310
> > > > >
> > > > > Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com
> > > > >
> > > > > 850-456-5995 voice
> > > > > 850-458-6369 fax
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hoyt's TV wrote:
> > > > > > I have no doubt it looks better and I'm all for it.
> > > > > > I just don't believe it should be shoved down our 
> throats with a
> > > > > deadline.
> > > > > > Did they mandate vinyl had to go away at a predetermined 
> date to
> > > > > facilitate
> > > > > > the change to CDs?
> > > > > > I feel the market should be allowed to work by itself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Russ Hoyt
> > > > > > Hoyt's TV
> > > > > > Exeter, NH
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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