[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

From: "Hoyt's TV" <hoytstv@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:11:30 -0400
When I was teaching at the US Army Southeastern School, we had a neat little 
demonstration to show antenna gain.

We had a small transmitter set up on the bench with a receiving antenna 
opposite the transmitting antenna. We started with a simple folded dipole 
attached to a small light bulb. Then we added a reflector element and keyed 
the Xmitter again to show the increased brightness of the bulb. Then we 
added a director and a couple more directors. It was a very effective demo.


Russ Hoyt
Hoyt's TV
Exeter, NH


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <tjanphyl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have 
onestandard ?


> Guys:
> "Gain" was used by antenna engineers and designers. They needed some
> point of reference to measure and compare one antenna's performance
> compared to another. These labs always used the term "gain" to
> reference the difference between the antenna being designed and their
> reference "dipole" antenna which is considered "unity gain". (no gain)
> The gain numbers refer to how much more signal strength the gain
> antenna sends to the reciever than the reference dipole antenna does
> connected to the same reciever from the same signal source. Any
> measurement has to have a reference. Frequencies in labs are compared
> to the lab's reference cesium clock (atomic) so as to know how far the
> device under test varies from the standard. You must know the "knowns"
> to measure the variables.
> Phil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Damon <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:11 pm
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
> onestandard ?
>
>> Yeah, I really don't know why the term is "gain" when you're not
>> reallygaining additional power from the "ethers".
>>
>> All I do understand is that the "Effective Antenna Power"  is
>> affected by
>> the "Effective(??) Gain" of the antenna.........
>> Our teacher in Antenna/Microwave Cavity training used the term
>> "Effective"consistently when talking about Antennas, and termed it
>> as what the antenna
>> "looks like" in relations to the Earth, Atmosphere, and recieving
>> equipment......
>>
>> Remember the old Startup/Shutdown public message broadcast from TV
>> and radio
>> stations? They always noted the Channel and Effective Power of
>> that station.
>> I remember WOWO transmitting that "50,000" Watts message every
>> hour, but the
>> Local TV stations mostly stated their power at the end of the
>> transmissionday.
>>
>> Damon B
>> Telrad Electronics
>> Fort Wayne IN
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "J Silverman" <greentron@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:53 PM
>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
>> onestandard ?
>>
>>
>> > Antennas dont really have "gain". There are only so many
>> microwatts that
>> > strike the antenna elements and they cant "suck in" any
>> microwatts from
>> the
>> > space around them. The antenna design determines how many of those
>> > microwatts at a given wavelength gets converted into microvolts,
> and
>> > determines the rejection of unwanted signals or noise at other
>> wavelengths> and coming from other directions. So with digital
>> signals, the antenna and
>> > its installation will be the critical component.
>> > Jerry Silverman
>> > Greentron Inc
>> > 4 Newland Ave
>> > Greenville SC 29609
>> > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
>> > mail to: greentron@xxxxxxx
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Damon" <DamonEB@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:52 AM
>> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have
>> > onestandard ?
>> >
>> >
>> > > Yes, you're correct....digital signals avoid ghosting/multipath
>> problems,
>> > > and in areas where an analog signal was snowy/grainy they will
> now
>> recieve
>> > a
>> > > perfectly clear picture, and weaker signal areas will recieve
>> broken up
>> > > signal information, or none at all.....
>> > >
>> > > The rated "Antenna Power" will determine how far the signal is
>> recieved.> > The "Tranmitter Power" only determines how much power
>> the the
>> transmitter
>> > > sends to the antenna......an example is that a 500kW
>> transmitter can
>> send
>> > > it's signal to a 6-Bay antenna and that 6-Bay antenna will
>> have an
>> > > "effective Antenna Power of (6 x 500kW) or 3MW.
>> > > That's what I was informed by the NBC affiliate's engineer
>> (Gene) back
>> in
>> > > the late '80's
>> > >
>> > > There are other things that affect Antenna power.....antenna
> gain,
>> > effective
>> > > height of the antenna, number of antennas......
>> > > Still a 440V 3 phase transmitter would require a 100 Amp
>> service to
>> drive
>> > a
>> > > setup like that.
>> > > And that 500kw tranmitter at 10 cents a kilowatt/hour would
>> cost $36,000
>> a
>> > > month.
>> > >
>> > > Damon B
>> > > Telrad Electronics
>> > > Fort Wayne IN
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
>> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:16 AM
>> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we
>> have> > onestandard ?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > So do you need a stronger digital signal than analog signal
>> to give a
>> > > > good picture?  I realize that there is a minimum signal
>> required to
>> give
>> > > > a picture with digital, but I always thought that one of the
>> advantages
>> > > > of digital was that even a weak signal would give a perfect
>> picture;> > > whereas a similar weak analog signal would give a
>> grainy B/W picture.
>> > > >
>> > > > Just like the hundredth generation copy of a digital VHS
>> tape will
>> give
>> > > > a perfect picture, but after only the second generation copy
>> an analog
>> > > > VHS tape will look terrible.  Does this analogy not apply to
> the
>> > > > broadcast of digital vs. analog signals?
>> > > >
>> > > > Kevin Wilks
>> > > > Kevin's TV Repair
>> > > > Penticton BC Canada
>> > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerome
>> Silverman> > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:25 PM
>> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will
>> we have
>> > > > onestandard ?
>> > > >
>> > > > I cant think of any reason why it should, but with digital
>> you need a
>> > > > really
>> > > > good signal or you get no picture at all, no snow, no
>> ghosts, no
>> > > > grainyness - just no picture!
>> > > > Jerry Silverman
>> > > > Greentron Inc
>> > > > 4 Newland Ave Greenville SC 29609
>> > > > Fax/Phone 864 232 3889
>> > > > greentron@xxxxxxx
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Kevin's TV Repair" <kevintv@xxxxxxx>
>> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:10 PM
>> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will
>> we have
>> > > > onestandard ?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Doesn't digital take a lot less power to transmit?  Their
>> costs may
>> be
>> > > > > higher, but not much higher (unless they are in California).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Kevin Wilks
>> > > > > Kevin's TV Repair
>> > > > > Penticton BC Canada
>> > > > > kevintv@xxxxxxx
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Wayne Vanaman
>> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:51 AM
>> > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC
>> goes,will we have
>> > > > > onestandard ?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Did they mandate which side of the road we had to drive on?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A conversion like this can not be drawn out.  One of the
>> things that
>> > > > > surprises me is the lack of support from the TV stations.
>> Whilethey
>> > > > > are broadcasting digital and analog their power bills have
>> to be a
>> lot
>> > > > > higher.  I would think they would want to turn off one of the
>> > > > > transmitters.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wayne Vanaman
>> > > > > Omega Electronics
>> > > > > 6904 W Fairfield Dr
>> > > > > Pensacola, Fl.  32506-3310
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 850-456-5995 voice
>> > > > > 850-458-6369 fax
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hoyt's TV wrote:
>> > > > > > I have no doubt it looks better and I'm all for it.
>> > > > > > I just don't believe it should be shoved down our
>> throats with a
>> > > > > deadline.
>> > > > > > Did they mandate vinyl had to go away at a predetermined
>> date to
>> > > > > facilitate
>> > > > > > the change to CDs?
>> > > > > > I feel the market should be allowed to work by itself.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Russ Hoyt
>> > > > > > Hoyt's TV
>> > > > > > Exeter, NH
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
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Follow-Ups:
- [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?
  - From: Jerome Silverman
References:
- [TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?
  - From: tjanphyl
[TechAssist] Re: Hypothetical: When NTSC goes,will we have onestandard ?

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