Is this crap going on at BR all the time now? That's too bad if it is.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:05 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yeah, Dennis, we had a long talk about that one too - the flag dragging,
the nudist cyclists, the druggies high on LSD who showed up to "watch the
pretty rockets"
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Dennis Yeh <dennismyeh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This weekend did have some pretty insane circumstances... I talked to her
and it seems like she had fun though, despite all the BS!
I'm hoping she didn't see the nudists - that was pretty disgusting
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:51 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
My daughter was at her first BR launch this weekend and I can't tell you
the nightmares this whole thing has provided.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:50 PM, James Dougherty <jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
:-)
Yes, we talked about that too.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Eric Renger <ericrenger@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
For the record, I am not butt-hurt by Cliff's response. In a way, he
proves my point that people make mistakes reading or actually don't read
everything thoroughly, so you can't rely on a manual to make an inherently
unsafe thing safe.
On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:38 PM, James Dougherty wrote:
hey guys
Look, this is a serious issue - a product like this shouldn't even be
on the market, Cliff got pissed and didn't read through the email and i am
sure he apologizes.
There are so many levels of wrong about this Rockcontroller I'm not
even going to go into right now ... I like to get all of my facts straight
about the situation and
I need to talk to Frank about this before I do anything about it - but
I will be doing something about it - as far as I'm concerned, this unit
shouldn't even be on the
market.
Those of you guys who know me know that safety is a big thing for me,
this is why I went out and helped invest in the club launch system because
A) I know the
guy who designed the system and he is solid electrical engineer (Ron
McGough - Blackdog Rocketry), B) it needs to be rock-solid as if your life
depended on it
(it does) and C) I reviewed the circuitry and schematics for the
continuity check and relay circuit myself - it's physically impossible for
this to fail unless there
is a mechanical failure.
let me get the data together and we'll decide to do what's next ...
what really pissed me off the most right now is that there is no online
site for it:
<image.png>
And no, I shouldn't have to google to find a point of contact for a
device like this.
But the same guy is out selling his "Tiltometer" and from what I can
tell it was put together with bubble-gum and bailing wireas well.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Eric Renger <ericrenger@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Cliff, if you're being ironic, you need to put one of those winky
smiley faces in your post!
If not being ironic, you need to reread my post. I am totally in
agreement with you. The design is unsafe, and you can't expect a manual
to
make it OK. That was my point.
On Jul 6, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Cliff Sojourner wrote:
Eric, shut up, go to Hell.
There is no reasonable expectation for users to read a manual that
isn't at the pad and there isn't any reason to expect them to understand
it
in 107 degrees heat.
Launch control wiring has been the same for more than 60 years. Users
do not expect live wires. Ever.
This is a complete hazard and unacceptable risk to destroy the
rocketry community. Such a simple thing. Unnecessary.
I will protect my family and friends. My friends are the entire
rocketry community.
On July 6, 2015 11:41:16 AM MST, Eric Renger <ericrenger@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
--
It sounds like there is potential for user error.
RTFM is always a good policy, but as a person who used to write a
lot of M's, we know that not everyone will R T F'ing things. Generally,
the
best policy is if the design will save the user from making mistakes if
at
all possible, not the manual! In certain situations, I used to tell
developers, "You can't save this design with documentation. You need to
fix
the design and save users from themselves."
The danger I see is that if a person is unfamiliar with the design
and procedures, and they assume there is NO WAY it can light the igniter
unless someone is actually pushing the button (or an equipment
malfunction), then it could result in disaster. If the design is such
that
after one launch, the system is not automatically safe to hook up the
next
bird without removing leads or some other steps to make it safe, there
is a
potential to forget. Or there is a potential f or one group to leave the
equipment unsafe for the next group.
Of course, I'm saying all this without having ever seen this
equipment and not even a good familiarity with the usual club equipment,
and i don't know what kinds of procedures you had in place. It just
sounds
like the system can accidentally be left in an unsafe state.
Eric
On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:05 AM, James Dougherty wrote:
Thanks Jack,
Yes, this is the correct sequence to make it work and what we did
all weekend.
If you want to kill yourself, here is what you do:
1) Don't remove the safety interlock on the transmitter
2) Leave the alligator leads connec ted to the Receiver, connect
igniter leads to motor
3) Turn on the Receiver - it will make a beep beep beep and then
you'll hear the igniter pop and the rocket motor light
And the unit will turn on and fire the rocket if you do this.
This happened twice - once when Mike and I launched a Mad-Dog and
once when Dennis/Aidan were flying.
I spoke with them, showed them the above steps (which ARE in the
manual) and we never had an issue.
Clear example where you need to Read The F***in manual (RTFM) :-)
-James
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:49 AM, Jack Garibaldi <
jackgaribaldi@xxxxxxx> wrote:
James
Your sequence must be wrong if you are lighting igniters/rockets
without pushing any buttons
1. When you hook up igniter clips this wire should not be
plugged into the relay module
2. When you hook up relay module plug, your wireless relay
module should be off and the safety clip out
3. Now when you turn on Blue unit safet y clip is out now put
in safety clip
4. If unit now goes off no one is by the rocket and you have
a an issue with unit
5. Unit will not turn on unless this sequence is followed
Jack
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Dennis Yeh
University of California, Los Angeles
B.S. Aerospace Engineering, 2015
