[roc-chat] Re: [Bulk] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
- From: <richsilv@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:13:59 -0800
Lets not continue to blow this up.
Although I have not been to a launch in more than a year. When I RSO'd I
never felt like I couldn't ask for help if a project that was in front of my
face was either beyond my experience or I just needed the extra opinion.
There is no need to have an Uber-RSO managing others. Geez, just ask someone
you know in line or ask someone to go get one of more experienced flyers to
come help you out.
Seems to me that "Range Safety" has always been a shared responsibility of
the RSO and LCO. At larger launches we used to have an extra body or two
around the LCO table to help out.
Oh, and on a previous post. I don't think that a Pad Assistant can just be a
"Warm Body". If they are truly going to help out they need at least some
familiarity with the club equipment. Some familiarity with the Hobby (how
else are you going to help? Just be a Gopher? Here's the masking tape?)
From: roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Richard Dierking
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:02 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: [Bulk] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
Please note that I said should be the same not "are the same." :-) My
point for the document was that you don't just let someone be the RSO
because you need a warm body in that position. So, is being a level 2
really enough? Sorry, different topic.
For some clubs, the RSO is in charge of the launch and delegates to others
for inspecting rockets. So, sometimes, the RSO is truly the Range Safety
Officer.
For ROC the RSO is a rocket inspector.
I guess ROC could have a RSO overseeing range safety and delegate to other
people for rocket inspection, but whoops, that would be another position
that would need to be filled.
Richard
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:55 PM, David Erbas-White <derbas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On 11/14/2012 6:44 PM, Richard Dierking wrote:
Richard, that document is targeted towards high-power operation (please
refer to second paragraph of that document).
In order to RSO for low power, one only has to know low power. Otherwise,
how would a section that only has a low power launch site (and thus may have
no high-power certified members) EVER be able to conduct a launch?
AFAIK, the only requirement is that the NAR Model Rocketry Safety Code be
followed. Realistically, I don't think there is ANY requirement for an RSO
at a low-power launch, unless there is something specifically required for
clubs/sections that I can't find on the site (the link to the 'safety' page
is broken). High power is a different kettle of fish...
David Erbas-White
The qualifications for a low power should be the same. There's a certain
level of knowledge and experience you should have before inspecting other
people's rockets before flight. Model rockets (low power stuff) is smaller
and doesn't usually have the velocity of a high-power rocket, but they can
still cause injuries.
Please refer to the following for NAR: http://www.nar.org/pdf/TSO.pdf
Richard Dierking
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:18 PM, RocketDog <rocket1dog@xxxxxxx> wrote:
what spell check...launch.
From: RocketDog <mailto:rocket1dog@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:24 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: [Bulk] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
What certs are required for low power launces???? Any...
From: Tom Hanan <mailto:tom.hanan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:42 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Bulk] [roc-chat] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
Level 2 cert LCO and RSO for the youth groups which only leaves PM and PA
positions for Low Power volunteers. Looks like I am going to have to build
something big enough to get level 2 certified before next years RocStock ;)
On 11/14/2012 3:35 PM, Jim Wold wrote:
We can use uncertified people for PM and PA but the RSOs need to be
certified level 2.
Jim Wold
From: Tom Hanan <mailto:tom.hanan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:40 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
Frankly Jim I talked to three other parents standing in line that said they
would have stepped up if they did not have to deal with the high power stuff
they felt they were not qualified to RSO/PM/PA. Wright or wrong the newbies
and retreads like me see the low power stuff with a single rod size as
exponentially easier ;) I know that's true from talking to a few scout
leaders as well.
And as I have said before, there is nothing more motivating to the average
group leader or parent than shutting down the kids table!
If we want the low power volunteers consistently step up we need to make it
as easy as possible to volunteer to prevent the table from being shut down.
I also think the group discount should only be available to groups who have
leaders who sign that they are comfortable volunteering for low power
RSO/PM/PA positions.
On 11/14/2012 12:25 PM, bb.wolf2@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
We already have the ability to launch anywhere on the range while people are
loading rockets at any other pads. If we have separate RSOs and pad managers
we need more volunteers which we aren't getting enough of now. If Richard,
Lee and I hadn't stepped up Sunday morning there would have been no flying.
There was no one signed up and no interest.
Jim Wold
Sent from my HTC InspireT 4G on AT&T
----- Reply message -----
From: "Tom Hanan" mailto:tom.hanan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: mailto:roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Youth Groups at ROCstocks
Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:10 pm
A thought would be to always have separate low power an high power tables
and volunteers at Roctober and RocStock. With the table manning priority
going to low power at Roctober and high power at RocStock. Shutdowns
affecting only the table that is short handed.
No one is excluding any one group but the priority for each launch is well
publicised and the need for volunteers to support each groups priorities
encourages each group to man their tables.
In my opinion we also need to look hard at what would be involved to support
simultaneous loading of low power while launching high power. We already
allow simultaneous loading of high power while loading and launching low
power. I feel very strongly that this would go a long way to addressing the
weather related launch congestion that lead to the anxiety the members
experienced at RocStock this year.
Each power group can decide how to best motivate volunteers to man their
respective tables. The good news is that the lower volunteer confidence
threshold for low power volunteers should allow them to recruit the larger
numbers of volunteers needed to support the much larger number of low power
flyers.
I say that knowing that there are many members of ROC who have high power
experience that would continue to be Johny on the spot to prevent a
temporary shutdown of the kids table :)
Its just who we are!
ROC members are GREAT people!
"Straw Hat" Tom
P.S. my definition of Low Power is: Single stage, Single use A,B,C,D engine,
<2000' AGL to minimize / simplify flight card complexity, checkout and
safety / airspace concerns. Low Power Rockets recovered on the public side
of the safety flags must demonstrate appropriate modifications to prevent
future incursions into uncontrolled public areas. Questionable airframes
should be launched on the small rod high power pads where more appropriate
rocket review and safety buffer zones are available. NO low power hazmat
rockets ;)
On 11/14/2012 9:52 AM, David Erbas-White wrote:
On 11/14/2012 9:32 AM, Richard Dierking wrote:
Richard,
I don't believe it is necessary (or possible, frankly) to discourage youth
groups at ROCstocks.
I would refer you to my previous comment where there should be 'windows'
where there is no low-power flying at ROCstocks. I think the only
additional work involved is a couple of big signs at the range head that say
something like "Mid-to-high power only from 10AM to 11AM and 2PM to 3PM", or
whatever works for that day.
We need as many groups/people to join as possible in order to keep the hobby
going.
Perhaps a graduated payment scale for youth groups? One fee it they're
going to fly and not help out, and a lower fee if they provide an adult
and/or responsible kid over a certain age, for a specific timeframe, to
assist with the launch?
David Erbas-White
I believe that youth groups should be discouraged from going to ROCstocks.
Youth groups now have their own launch (ROCtober) in the best month for
weather. I'm not saying no low power at ROCstocks. Just saying that large
youth groups are taking over and it's actually not fair to the high-power
flyers.
These high-power flyers are primarily ROC Executive members.
What have been the ROC Executive membership numbers been for say the last 5
years? What is the relationship between the number of low power flights,
high power flights, and ROC Executive membership?
Richard Dierking
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