There is absolutely nothing in the criteria for a fruit basket program that says UI and other code need to be mixed. That is a design choice that some have made, but there are other samples, e.g., Visual Studio projects, where UI and other code is separated. So, those folks should be encouraged to submit programs that meet the criteria and separate the code and files however they think is best. The criteria specify how the dialog should behave, not how the underlying code should be structured.
Jamal On 10/10/2010 2:30 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
Thanks Ken. I hadn't heard of Appcelerator but I'll look around for it and see what I may be able to learn about it. It would certainly be convenient to get iPhone and Android all in one project. How accessible is it? I know that Fruit Basket is intended to show blind people how to do UI without sighted help. I was just mentioning that I don't do a lot of UI stuff as my UI ideas tend to suck and someone always needs to jump in and help me out before shipping a program. The problem with our friends in Venezuela didn't object to a blind person writing UI code, they didn't like the entire program being placed in a single source file as that would make for a lot of difficulty working on multi-hacker projects and generally more difficult to find any specific item. Blind people should learn how to make GUI code but I am still willing to bet that the marketing department will want things rearranged as this is the issue even with sighted hackers. Personally, I think emacs has the greatest UI in the world so the average man on the street thinks I am probably seriously mentally ill. I would like to see FB for Gnome and for the Apple operating systems but no volunteers have come forward yet. cdh On Oct 10, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Ken Perry wrote:Actually you can also use Appcelerator and when using it under Mac you can actually code for IPhone and Android both at the same time. Remember though the fruit basket was originally designed to show how to make UI for blind people. Using a sited person to do it really doesn’t count. That is why I have not done one already. Ken *From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Chris Hofstader *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:09 PM *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Subject:* Re: iPhone development To develop iPhone apps you are almost forced to use the xcode development system that ships with every Macintosh. I know a few blind people who use it with pretty good success. The hardest part, of course, is arranging controls in your UI as there is no accessible way to do this. When coding for iPhone, I use emacspeak as my editor and xcode as an IDE and get help from a sightie for layout issues. I thought of trying to find someone to help make a "fruit basket" for OSX and iOS but haven't had any takers so far. I'm not even sure that OSX or iOS permit putting all of the UI code in the same file as the rest of the program which is how many of the Fruit Basket programs are designed. Also, while it's possible to write iOS code in C or C++, for all intents and purposes, you are forced to use Objective C, an odd language that only Apple supports as far as I can tell. So, a fruit basket program for a single language (Objective C is preferred for OSX as well) might be something we can find someone to do. Of course, if you embed a WebKit control in your iOS program, you then need to follow the WCAG guidelines for the content you expose using it so JavaScript and some other things become important but doing an FB program would be silly as it is all described nicely in the WCAG and other W3C standards documents. I had thought I had a student in Venezuela who was going to make Fruit Basket ports for GNU/Linux systems running the Gnome desktop. She is taking a class called "Computer Languages" which, when I took it back in 1980 or so, taught us 13 languages in 13 weeks and, as I saw it, it was a pretty major waste of time and, to this day, I've never seen anyone ask for Snobol/V, Wafter, Spitbol and a few of the others we had to learn back in the dark ages. Our Venezuelan student's professor liked the idea of the Fruit Basket for Gnome until he found files that contained the UI and the rest of the program as he thinks it is bad software engineering practice. Our student friend is doing all console programs instead and we're still looking for a volunteer to do the FB port. I do not find asking for sighted help on UI layout to be a problem for me. When I could see perfectly well, I made sucky user interfaces that someone would need to rearrange in a manner that the marketing people approved of. So, as far as I go, UI layout always required asking for help and I can usually find someone to spiff up my programs pretty efficiently. On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Michael Taboada (AI5HF) wrote: Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew of an accessible way to develop for the iPhone. I could use apple's software, or I could use a third party software solution. I am running windows. Thanks, -Michael. AI5HF http://mtgames.org/ http://u4u.be/ Skype: lilmike2 Gmail: ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx> msn: ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx> PC details: Intel quad core 2.66 ghz; 4 gb duel channel ddr2 ram; 1 TB harddrive. "The songs of the dead are the lamentations of the living." -- Christopher Paolini, Eldest. "A world that contained a creature as amazing as that bumblebee was a world he wanted to live in." -- Christopher Paolini, Brisingr.
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