Re: iPhone development
- From: Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:24:03 -0400
Thanks Ken.
On Oct 11, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Ken Perry wrote:
> Hmm the java fruitbasket with the access bridge on gnome should work on
> gnome 3.
>
> ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:21 AM
> To: Jamal Mazrui
> Cc: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: iPhone development
>
> Jamal et al,
>
> I did not say that the single source file approach to some of the Fruit
> Basket programs is essential to their value, I'm just a little frustrated
> trying to find someone to port the baskets to a GNU/Linux, Gnome based
> system. We have a call for volunteers out in all of our international
> locales and in the US asking for help in this porting but we've no takers
> and the one person we did have was stopped by her professor because he found
> the code to be oddly organized.
>
> If someone can write up a few paragraphs describing in general terms what FB
> is and why it is important, I'll get it up onto the FSF web site as soon as
> I can. If you don't look at www.fsf.org much, you won't, therefore, be able
> to see how rapidly we are improving it and an accessibility section is under
> way but, except for our original statement, still not there but will be
> soon. Anyone who wants to write articles about FLOSS at on GNU/Linux
> platforms (it's ok if they also run on Windows or Mac but they must also
> work as well on free operating systems) should write to me off-line to
> discuss topics of interest and how best to present them.
>
> If anyone out there wants to help port FB to a Gnome desktop, I can send
> them a pretty good computer that they can keep as their own once they
> complete some subsection of FB in Gnome desktop.
>
> Currently, from Gnome Foundation, Linux Foundation, FSF and elsewhere, the
> absolute highest priority is that we work with Gnome 3 as soon as it ships.
> This requires that we make a major change to DBus which means that it's
> really "under-the-hood" system hacking and lots of regression testing to
> make sure that Orca and other AT for Gnome weren't broken by one of these
> new changes.
>
> Again, any help would be greatly appreciated. Getting a free computer in the
> bargain should also alleviate fears of damaging one's main machine by
> polluting it with a GNU/Linux distro.
>
> Lastly, I will pay for shipping out of pocket for the computer in the US but
> I need to ask that anyone outside the country pay for shipping and whatever
> customs charges come with taking receipt of a desktop computer.
>
> HH,
> cdh
>
> PS: The computer cannot be shipped until 10/25 or so as it is in my house in
> Florida and no one will be there until the twenty-fifth of this month.
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
>
>> There is absolutely nothing in the criteria for a fruit basket program
> that says UI and other code need to be mixed. That is a design choice that
> some have made, but there are other samples, e.g., Visual Studio projects,
> where UI and other code is separated. So, those folks should be encouraged
> to submit programs that meet the criteria and separate the code and files
> however they think is best. The criteria specify how the dialog should
> behave, not how the underlying code should be structured.
>>
>> Jamal
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2010 2:30 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
>>> Thanks Ken.
>>>
>>> I hadn't heard of Appcelerator but I'll look around for it and see what
>>> I may be able to learn about it. It would certainly be convenient to get
>>> iPhone and Android all in one project. How accessible is it?
>>>
>>> I know that Fruit Basket is intended to show blind people how to do UI
>>> without sighted help. I was just mentioning that I don't do a lot of UI
>>> stuff as my UI ideas tend to suck and someone always needs to jump in
>>> and help me out before shipping a program.
>>>
>>> The problem with our friends in Venezuela didn't object to a blind
>>> person writing UI code, they didn't like the entire program being placed
>>> in a single source file as that would make for a lot of difficulty
>>> working on multi-hacker projects and generally more difficult to find
>>> any specific item.
>>>
>>> Blind people should learn how to make GUI code but I am still willing to
>>> bet that the marketing department will want things rearranged as this is
>>> the issue even with sighted hackers. Personally, I think emacs has the
>>> greatest UI in the world so the average man on the street thinks I am
>>> probably seriously mentally ill.
>>>
>>> I would like to see FB for Gnome and for the Apple operating systems but
>>> no volunteers have come forward yet.
>>>
>>> cdh
>>> On Oct 10, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually you can also use Appcelerator and when using it under Mac you
>>>> can actually code for IPhone and Android both at the same time.
>>>> Remember though the fruit basket was originally designed to show how
>>>> to make UI for blind people. Using a sited person to do it really
>>>> doesn't count. That is why I have not done one already.
>>>> Ken
>>>> *From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Chris
>>>> Hofstader
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:09 PM
>>>> *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: iPhone development
>>>> To develop iPhone apps you are almost forced to use the xcode
>>>> development system that ships with every Macintosh. I know a few blind
>>>> people who use it with pretty good success. The hardest part, of
>>>> course, is arranging controls in your UI as there is no accessible way
>>>> to do this.
>>>> When coding for iPhone, I use emacspeak as my editor and xcode as an
>>>> IDE and get help from a sightie for layout issues.
>>>> I thought of trying to find someone to help make a "fruit basket" for
>>>> OSX and iOS but haven't had any takers so far. I'm not even sure that
>>>> OSX or iOS permit putting all of the UI code in the same file as the
>>>> rest of the program which is how many of the Fruit Basket programs are
>>>> designed. Also, while it's possible to write iOS code in C or C++, for
>>>> all intents and purposes, you are forced to use Objective C, an odd
>>>> language that only Apple supports as far as I can tell. So, a fruit
>>>> basket program for a single language (Objective C is preferred for OSX
>>>> as well) might be something we can find someone to do. Of course, if
>>>> you embed a WebKit control in your iOS program, you then need to
>>>> follow the WCAG guidelines for the content you expose using it so
>>>> JavaScript and some other things become important but doing an FB
>>>> program would be silly as it is all described nicely in the WCAG and
>>>> other W3C standards documents.
>>>> I had thought I had a student in Venezuela who was going to make Fruit
>>>> Basket ports for GNU/Linux systems running the Gnome desktop. She is
>>>> taking a class called "Computer Languages" which, when I took it back
>>>> in 1980 or so, taught us 13 languages in 13 weeks and, as I saw it, it
>>>> was a pretty major waste of time and, to this day, I've never seen
>>>> anyone ask for Snobol/V, Wafter, Spitbol and a few of the others we
>>>> had to learn back in the dark ages. Our Venezuelan student's professor
>>>> liked the idea of the Fruit Basket for Gnome until he found files that
>>>> contained the UI and the rest of the program as he thinks it is bad
>>>> software engineering practice. Our student friend is doing all console
>>>> programs instead and we're still looking for a volunteer to do the FB
>>>> port.
>>>> I do not find asking for sighted help on UI layout to be a problem for
>>>> me. When I could see perfectly well, I made sucky user interfaces that
>>>> someone would need to rearrange in a manner that the marketing people
>>>> approved of. So, as far as I go, UI layout always required asking for
>>>> help and I can usually find someone to spiff up my programs pretty
>>>> efficiently.
>>>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Michael Taboada (AI5HF) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of an accessible way to develop for the
>>>> iPhone.
>>>> I could use apple's software, or I could use a third party software
>>>> solution.
>>>> I am running windows.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -Michael.
>>>> AI5HF
>>>> http://mtgames.org/
>>>> http://u4u.be/
>>>> Skype: lilmike2
>>>> Gmail: ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> msn: ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> PC details:
>>>> Intel quad core 2.66 ghz; 4 gb duel channel ddr2 ram; 1 TB harddrive.
>>>> "The songs of the dead are the lamentations of the living." --
>>>> Christopher Paolini, Eldest.
>>>> "A world that contained a creature as amazing as that bumblebee was a
>>>> world he wanted to live in." -- Christopher Paolini, Brisingr.
>>>
>
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