RE: iPhone development

  • From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:37:11 -0400

Combobox is more simple than tree view and the idea is not to have to make a
bunch of nodes and stuff when it comes to fruit basket but to each their
own.  I mean really combobox is what most use in Java for lists as well.
ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Dunleavy
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:10 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: iPhone development

Hi Ken,

I spotted that also from the Python point of view with pygtk.
My first thoughts on seeing the absence of ListBox was to use ListStore
in conjuction with TreeView.

--Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: iPhone development


> Well I just did a quick glance over the gtk+ c programming howtos and
think
> without doing too much work I should be able to get one of those working
> although if I am correct it almost looks like there is no listbox so I
guess
> it will have to be a combobox..  Oh well We will see.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: programmingblind
> Subject: Re: iPhone development
>
> I agree, and have been hoping for Gnome and OS X samples for a while.
> As mentioned in the direct email between us, I think there are samples
> written in cross platform languages and GUI toolkits that probably could
> be ported without much difficulty by someone familiar with those  other
> platforms.  For example, the wxPython sample at
> http://EmpowermentZone.com/py_fruit.zip
>
> would probably run under Vinux if an appropriate "sha-bang line" were
> inserted at the top of the .py file.  If wxPython is not bundled with
> Vinux, then it would be helpful if the documentation for that fruit
> basket sample explain how to install it.  All the fruit basket samples
> have free licenses, so anyone can use them as the basis for a port
> without seeking permission first.
>
> Jamal
>
>
> On 10/11/2010 3:56 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> > I do still think that an OSX and iOS FB example or two would be really
> helpful.
> > On Oct 11, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
> >
> >> It sounds to me like whoever that person is, he or she has not been
truly
> serious about contributing a fruit basket program.  On the present web
site
> of the project
> >> http://FruitBasket.QuantumMyst.com
> >>
> >> the purpose of the project is explained and there is a link to the
> specific criteria for a fruit basket program.  For even easier reference,
I
> am pasting the text of that file below.
> >>
> >> While the current organization of the page may not be optimal, it is
not
> difficult to follow.  There are clearly program samples that do not use
the
> unified code approach, and as mentioned, the criteria (pasted below) makes
> no mention of code structure.
> >>
> >> Jamal
> >>
> >> [F[From the link entitled "Fruit Basket Demo criteria,
> >> "]
> >>
> >> hello friends,
> >>
> >> On the Blind Programming list (www.blindprogramming.com), we developed
> specifications for a sample program with a graphical user interface (GUI)
> that could be implemented in various languages.  It became known as a
fruit
> basket program.  The purpose is to help teach people how to code a GUI
> program in a particular language.  Someone considering the language can
> examine the code and evaluate the syntax and other development steps
> involved based on his or her own knowledge, skills, and preferences.  By
> running the program, one can also make observations as an end-user,
> evaluating such aspects as the size, speed, and accessibility of the
> program.
> >>
> >> The specifications for a fruit basket program are as follows:
> >> 1. The program is a GUI interface, or the equivalent with at least an
> edit box, list box, and two buttons.
> >> 2. The user can type the name of a fruit, e.g., apple, in the edit box.
> >> 3. When the Add button is activated, the fruit is copied into the list
> box and the edit box is cleared to be ready for another entry.
> >> 4. When the Delete button is activated, the currently focused fruit in
> the list box, or basket, is removed.
> >> 5. For accessibility, static labels should be associated with the edit
> box and list box, since these controls do not have captions like buttons.
> >> 6. Keyboard users will also appreciate a unique hot key for each
control.
> >> 7. Making Add the default button allows a fruit to be added by simply
> pressing Enter after typing its name.
> >> 8. An error message alerts the user if Add is pressed without a fruit
in
> the edit box or Delete is pressed without a fruit in the list box.
> >>
> >> ** Important** please! annotate your program files, make text copies if
> there not readable as such in there native format, add notes on easy to
find
> and use applications for compiling the project if you can and include the
> text files, project files, and an compiled executable for your version of
> the Fruit Basket Demo Project, in a zipped file for uploading to the site.
> >>
> >> thank you, Inthaneelf, Jamal Mazrui, James Homme, Eunice Clicker, and
> everyone else who have contributed to the fruit basket demo project.
> >>
> >> On 10/11/2010 10:21 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> >>> Jamal et al,
> >>>
> >>> I did not say that the single source file approach to some of the
Fruit
> Basket programs is essential to their value, I'm just a little frustrated
> trying to find someone to port the baskets to a GNU/Linux, Gnome based
> system. We have a call for volunteers out in all of our international
> locales and in the US asking for help in this porting but we've no takers
> and the one person we did have was stopped by her professor because he
found
> the code to be oddly organized.
> >>>
> >>> If someone can write up a few paragraphs describing in general terms
> what FB is and why it is important, I'll get it up onto the FSF web site
as
> soon as I can. If you don't look at www.fsf.org much, you won't,
therefore,
> be able to see how rapidly we are improving it and an accessibility
section
> is under way but, except for our original statement, still not there but
> will be soon. Anyone who wants to write articles about FLOSS at on
GNU/Linux
> platforms (it's ok if they also run on Windows or Mac but they must also
> work as well on free operating systems) should write to me off-line to
> discuss topics of interest and how best to present them.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone out there wants to help port FB to a Gnome desktop, I can
send
> them a pretty good  computer that they can keep as their own once they
> complete some subsection of FB in  Gnome desktop.
> >>>
> >>> Currently, from Gnome Foundation, Linux Foundation, FSF and elsewhere,
> the absolute highest priority is that we work with Gnome 3 as soon as it
> ships. This requires that we make a major change to DBus which means that
> it's really "under-the-hood" system hacking and lots of regression testing
> to make sure that Orca and other AT for Gnome weren't broken by one of
these
> new changes.
> >>>
> >>> Again, any help would be greatly appreciated. Getting a free computer
in
> the bargain should also alleviate fears of damaging one's main machine by
> polluting it with a GNU/Linux distro.
> >>>
> >>> Lastly, I will pay for shipping out of pocket for the computer in the
US
> but I need to ask that anyone outside the country pay for shipping and
> whatever customs charges come with taking receipt of a desktop computer.
> >>>
> >>> HH,
> >>> cdh
> >>>
> >>> PS: The computer cannot be shipped until 10/25 or so as it is in my
> house in Florida and no one will be there until the twenty-fifth of this
> month.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There is absolutely nothing in the criteria for a fruit basket
program
> that says UI and other code need to be mixed.  That is a design choice
that
> some have made, but there are other samples, e.g., Visual Studio projects,
> where UI and other code is separated.  So, those folks should be
encouraged
> to submit programs that meet the criteria and separate the code and files
> however they think is best.  The criteria specify how the dialog should
> behave, not how the underlying code should be structured.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jamal
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/10/2010 2:30 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks Ken.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I hadn't heard of Appcelerator but I'll look around for it and see
> what
> >>>>> I may be able to learn about it. It would certainly be convenient to
> get
> >>>>> iPhone and Android all in one project. How accessible is it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know that Fruit Basket is intended to show blind people how to do
UI
> >>>>> without sighted help. I was just mentioning that I don't do a lot of
> UI
> >>>>> stuff as my UI ideas tend to suck and someone always needs to jump
in
> >>>>> and help me out before shipping a program.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The problem with our friends in Venezuela didn't object to a blind
> >>>>> person writing UI code, they didn't like the entire program being
> placed
> >>>>> in a single source file as that would make for a lot of difficulty
> >>>>> working on multi-hacker projects and generally more difficult to
find
> >>>>> any specific item.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blind people should learn how to make GUI code but I am still
willing
> to
> >>>>> bet that the marketing department will want things rearranged as
this
> is
> >>>>> the issue even with sighted hackers. Personally, I think emacs has
the
> >>>>> greatest UI in the world so the average man on the street thinks I
am
> >>>>> probably seriously mentally ill.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would like to see FB for Gnome and for the Apple operating systems
> but
> >>>>> no volunteers have come forward yet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> cdh
> >>>>> On Oct 10, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Actually you can also use Appcelerator and when using it under Mac
> you
> >>>>>> can actually code for IPhone and Android both at the same time.
> >>>>>> Remember though the fruit basket was originally designed to show
how
> >>>>>> to make UI for blind people. Using a sited person to do it really
> >>>>>> doesn't count. That is why I have not done one already.
> >>>>>> Ken
> >>>>>> *From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Chris
> >>>>>> Hofstader
> >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2010 1:09 PM
> >>>>>> *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: iPhone development
> >>>>>> To develop iPhone apps you are almost forced to use the xcode
> >>>>>> development system that ships with every Macintosh. I know a few
> blind
> >>>>>> people who use it with pretty good success. The hardest part, of
> >>>>>> course, is arranging controls in your UI as there is no accessible
> way
> >>>>>> to do this.
> >>>>>> When coding for iPhone, I use emacspeak as my editor and xcode as
an
> >>>>>> IDE and get help from a sightie for layout issues.
> >>>>>> I thought of trying to find someone to help make a "fruit basket"
for
> >>>>>> OSX and iOS but haven't had any takers so far. I'm not even sure
that
> >>>>>> OSX or iOS permit putting all of the UI code in the same file as
the
> >>>>>> rest of the program which is how many of the Fruit Basket programs
> are
> >>>>>> designed. Also, while it's possible to write iOS code in C or C++,
> for
> >>>>>> all intents and purposes, you are forced to use Objective C, an odd
> >>>>>> language that only Apple supports as far as I can tell. So, a fruit
> >>>>>> basket program for a single language (Objective C is preferred for
> OSX
> >>>>>> as well) might be something we can find someone to do. Of course,
if
> >>>>>> you embed a WebKit control in your iOS program, you then need to
> >>>>>> follow the WCAG guidelines for the content you expose using it so
> >>>>>> JavaScript and some other things become important but doing an FB
> >>>>>> program would be silly as it is all described nicely in the WCAG
and
> >>>>>> other W3C standards documents.
> >>>>>> I had thought I had a student in Venezuela who was going to make
> Fruit
> >>>>>> Basket ports for GNU/Linux systems running the Gnome desktop. She
is
> >>>>>> taking a class called "Computer Languages" which, when I took it
back
> >>>>>> in 1980 or so, taught us 13 languages in 13 weeks and, as I saw it,
> it
> >>>>>> was a pretty major waste of time and, to this day, I've never seen
> >>>>>> anyone ask for Snobol/V, Wafter, Spitbol and a few of the others we
> >>>>>> had to learn back in the dark ages. Our Venezuelan student's
> professor
> >>>>>> liked the idea of the Fruit Basket for Gnome until he found files
> that
> >>>>>> contained the UI and the rest of the program as he thinks it is bad
> >>>>>> software engineering practice. Our student friend is doing all
> console
> >>>>>> programs instead and we're still looking for a volunteer to do the
FB
> >>>>>> port.
> >>>>>> I do not find asking for sighted help on UI layout to be a problem
> for
> >>>>>> me. When I could see perfectly well, I made sucky user interfaces
> that
> >>>>>> someone would need to rearrange in a manner that the marketing
people
> >>>>>> approved of. So, as far as I go, UI layout always required asking
for
> >>>>>> help and I can usually find someone to spiff up my programs pretty
> >>>>>> efficiently.
> >>>>>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Michael Taboada (AI5HF) wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>> I was wondering if anyone knew of an accessible way to develop for
> the
> >>>>>> iPhone.
> >>>>>> I could use apple's software, or I could use a third party software
> >>>>>> solution.
> >>>>>> I am running windows.
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> -Michael.
> >>>>>> AI5HF
> >>>>>> http://mtgames.org/
> >>>>>> http://u4u.be/
> >>>>>> Skype: lilmike2
> >>>>>> Gmail: ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ai5hf.lilmike@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> msn: ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> PC details:
> >>>>>> Intel quad core 2.66 ghz; 4 gb duel channel ddr2 ram; 1 TB
harddrive.
> >>>>>> "The songs of the dead are the lamentations of the living." --
> >>>>>> Christopher Paolini, Eldest.
> >>>>>> "A world that contained a creature as amazing as that bumblebee was
a
> >>>>>> world he wanted to live in." -- Christopher Paolini, Brisingr.
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
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> View the list's information and change your settings at
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